1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 3 | Jamey, Kelly, Mike & Shaun

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Turning 50 And Thinking Legacy

0:12

What's happening, gang? How are we? Kelly, guess what? What? Someone's getting older this week. Old. Old? That's why he hasn't been a little bit more than a few minutes. Is that what you're saying? Wow. Wow. The big 5-0. He said to me the other day, you know, before it was my birthday, he said, Man, we're getting old. I'm like, uh, I'm still in my 40s, buddy. I know, but you realize like you've lived more than half of your life. Wow. She's got she's already saying goodbye. Well, dude, I don't know. He's not making it to a hundred. I don't want to be alive at a hundred. I think I'll make it to a hundred, but he's not going to kick them again. You're going to make it to a hundred? You're not going to be able to do that. Is that because you're going to make sure he doesn't make it to a hundred? There's science behind it. Okay. I have longevity on the female side of my family. So if my great-great grandma was like 101, maybe when she died, my great grandma was ninety-nine. And my my grandma, who is still alive, will be ninety-one. 91? Yeah. She'll be 91. And she's not going anywhere for a while. She's kicking. Wow. So I'm going to at least be 90. Man, well, I mean, most people stop their insurance. Most people stop that insurance policy around 70-ish. You're going to want to kick yours up a little. Well, no, I mean I'll be gone. You'll be gone. That's true. I mean you could be, I guess, but. You're going to hey, listen though, like in your 80s and 90s, you're going to live well. I know. My dad is uh 77. Yeah. And his mom died at 92. You know what's so sweet is my grandpa died in 2020. And he was 86-ish. I don't know. That doesn't matter. And then Jake and Laura just bought his their house, my grandma grandpa's house. So my grandma lives in assisted living. And Jake's living in my grandma's house. And he was moved in, what, three weeks ago, four weeks ago. And I was walking Harlow like up and down the sidewalk. And I was like, Jake, grandpa would be so proud that you're living in this house because they watched him solely at the top of the house. They watched him all the time. More than anybody. My grandma and grandpa had him all the time. And not only that, like my grandma lives a very comfortable life because of him. Like it was just like this. Like he provided so much for his family. I mean, he just worked at the mill, granted, but it was a good job. But I was like, he would like burst at the seams if he got to see like the fruits of his labor now, which I mean he's in heaven with Jesus, so what's better than that? But um it was just like a moment where I was like, wow. And he's like, they built that house, right? Sixty years ago? They didn't build it. But it was just like he's still providing though he's gone and did a such a good job of it. Yeah. Anyway. And how many times was Jake walked up and down that sidewalk? Oh a million. And my grandpa is my favorite person that's ever lived. Sorry, Jamie. And children. Nothing wrong with that. You haven't apologize. But he was just a great man, so it was just a sweet moment. That's cool. That is really neat. Same sidewalk. Yeah. That's cool. That's very cool. It's cracked now because he literally planted the biggest trees outside of the sequoias live in Jake's front yard now. And so it's like cracked because of the trees, but it's sweet. See how big the structure is if a big big wind comes? Yeah, no doubt. Yep, yep. That's very

Milk Vs Steak Spiritual Maturity

3:40

true. Hey, so we're in uh chapter three and uh talking about continue this conversation about maturity, immaturity. And uh obviously Paul opens uh continues, but is this this thought of like, hey, uh I wish I could talk to you guys like you could eat steak, but I need to talk to you like you drink milk. And uh but yeah, at the same time, you know, like we're not talking about non-Christians here, we're talking about Christians, right? Uh the body of Christ. And so uh where you guys want to start? Well, I mean, I I think when it comes to maturity, like I I think there are five like and these and I think Paul addresses this. But so like I think all of us want to think we're more mature than we are. And Paul says, like, this is how you know, like, not by your words, not like, hey, I'm I'm mature, you know. It's like, are are you jealous? Are you quarreling? Like, are you fighting? Uh is there division? Is there pride? And are you choosing sides? Sure. Right? So, like I've even heard this in some of the conversations that we've had, you know, where there's been what we would call a division or discrepancy or conflict, you know, and someone says, like, well, we don't want to tell you this, so you choose sides, right? And we're like, We're not choosing sides. No, we we want the truth, like and then where is their immaturity on both sides? Like, we're not saying you're right, you're wrong, which I think a lot of people bring out in conflict. It's more like, How can we, you know, come together? And it'd be a right solution versus a side. They were obviously choosing sides, and he's a he addresses you know, chapter one again by saying, like, oh, you guys are choosing Apollos again, and you're choosing Paul, and and he's basically like, Hey, listen, like, we're servants of God. We aren't we aren't anything. We we dropped some seed. Yep. You know, Paul watered it. Yeah, Apollos watered it. God's the grower here. Yeah. I think it's one thing that I'm that I'm the Holy Spirit's reminding me of. You know, like I'm the one that brings growth, you know, and those kind of things. Like it's like it's yeah. But is it you know, the things that you just those five things that you mentioned, what were they the same again? Yeah, uh yeah, no problem. Jealousy, quarreling, uh fighting, division, pride, choosing sides. Sure. Which depending on how we like what kind of what Paul's a communicating is like, hey, the reason why I'm calling you mature is because that mature that immaturity is the way the world acts. You're you are the spirit lives in you, but you're still choosing to live by the natural man, not the spiritual man. So there's this learning curve of not acting like spirit not acting like natural man. It's why it makes sense to me why he says in uh and he says you cannot, which we'll get to, like you guys have to stop going to the world uh to judge you because the spiritual world cannot judge the natural world cannot judge the spiritual world, the spiritual world can judge it. You know what I'm saying? Kind of deal. Well, I think always too, like Paul in all of Corinthians is saying, I want you to become more like Jesus. Like that's the goal. The aim is I want you to become more like Jesus. Whereas I think we as Christians, I think for the most part, we lead with we don't lead with am I becoming like Jesus. We lead with how long have I followed Jesus? Sure. And it's almost like a card. Like, listen, do you not know? I've been following Jesus a long time, which we equate to I'm spiritually mature. Yes. Or I know the Bible. This is the card I'm dropping. I know the Bible because I've been a Christian. And Paul's going, okay, I don't care about that. I don't care that you've been a Christian for a long time. Are your actions producing you to look like Jesus? Yeah. That's my question. Right. Not pull out the Sunday school card. Yeah, because I I think Kelly, correct me if you think that because you're in this, but way deeper, like because you've been in it for this whole last year. I think I heard like he this this conversation right here in the letter is five years from when Paul actually was in Corinth planting this church. She's like, I don't know. Well, anyways, I don't I know there's some years involved. I've heard it was like five-ish years. Letter two and the way I understand it is so he goes, right, he plants, teaches, leaves. There are two years. They mess it up, send a letter. Yeah. This is what's going on. So he sends a letter. There's some time, for sure. Yeah, there's some time. And so he's coming back to this saying you misinterpreted what I taught you first. Yeah. Like you guys mess it up. Was he there two years to start? 18 months, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, he was there. From the church, was there eighteen months. Yep. Which is funny because, you know, statistically, they they say, like, from a pastoral standpoint, for you to have any amount of influence, you need to be there three years. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, right. That's a good thought. That's a very good thought. Which is why it's crazy that the average youth pastor stays 18 months. Right. That's still true. No, I think it's worse. I think it's like a year. Yeah. Well, there was always the church statistic and the assembly of God statistics. So I always went off those two. So AG statistic was less than the national. Well, it always made sense to me because you'd walk around Bible college and you'd be like, that guy right there wants to be a missionary, but he's 22. Yeah. Most likely he's gonna be a youth pastor first, but not called to be a youth pastor. Yes. Right? He needs to grow up. He needs to be able to do that. I think those times have changed a little bit. I mean, I think people can be missionaries at twenty-two anyway. Right, I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't need to be a stepping stone for sure. But I'm I'm saying like to be there 18 months, of course they're getting a letter. Like you weren't I mean, and I know he's always said back and forth, like, I've longed to be with you. Like I I would love to be there. Um I just can't. Right. And for that time, that time to get a letter was like they were there. Right. I think these kids know understand letters, do you? Yeah, yeah. Right. What's a letter? People know what letters are. I understand, but I'm talking about like do do kids get notes? Oh, like do they write notes? Yeah, they text. Well, exactly. That's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about us. I mean, I I have a bunch of people. I should bring that out this week. I should bring that out. Like, I got a letter from Kelly. What is this day? But they're so dumb, like, I'm in math class. It's boring. How's your day? And you would pass those in the hole, right? Because you were going to come. Like I wrote you a letter in class but I wasn't paying attention. Text and are all tablets, stone. Stone tablets. You had to leave them at mile markers. Yeah, I got it. There is a Smithsonian. Oh my goodness. You haven't even been near 10 minutes with the next one. We've already corrupted you, Kelly. She's joining right in. She is really hopeful if it takes me too long. So one of the questions I have, like in just these first few verses, is like, you know, how how those of us that are listening into this, like, how do we evaluate whether or not we're acting worldly, acting fleshly, you know what I mean, as as Christians, because that's who he's talking about? And then what does it look for us look for like for us to mature in that so we're not, you know, we are maturing and the worldly and the fleshly stuff is going, because there's obviously a process. I was thinking about that yesterday because it says and you're not ready. You are still controlled by your sinful sinful nature. How do you know that? You're jealous of one another and you quarrel with each other. Doesn't that prove that you are controlled by your sinful nature? So I was like, oh wow. Am I jealous? I mean, we quarrel sometimes. I don't quarrel like on a daily basis with people. But I was like, that's pretty simple. Like if you think controlled by your sinful nature, we want to go to the big things. And he's saying, You're jealous and you're quarreling because you're controlled by your sinful nature. Then it like puts it in perspective, like, oh that like I need to be really paying attention of what my flesh wants and what I feed it versus what I don't let control me. And it could be as simple as, I'm jealous that my neighbor has a new car and I can't afford it. I don't know, stupid. But um, I don't think that we think if we're jealous that we're controlled by our simple nature, or if we're quarreling. Because we always we want our way, right? Like we don't really know what they're quarreling quarreling about. Um, but I'm sure it's I have a will and you have a will, and my will needs your will to come to my will, you know. And how that really boils down to us feeding our flesh. Well, I think how we handle conflict ultimately shows our level of maturity. Sure. Who would I go to? How do I handle it? Is it taken care of? Are we, as Peter said, if at all possible with you, live at peace with everyone? Are we living in peace? Is there peace or is there chaos everywhere we go? Well, that would that to me would point to your level of how you handle adversity or conflict to me would speak more to your level of maturity than anything else. Yeah. Knowledge case. And how quickly you let things go. Like not for the sake of like getting walked on, but for the sake of going, I'm not gonna let that bother you. Well, you're gonna find that in chapter nine, when he's like, I'm not gonna impose my rights on anyone. I have the right to do this, this, and this, and this, but I'm not gonna do that because I can't wait to hear you talk about it. Because like making sure that everyone sees Christ is more important than my rights. Oh, yeah. So we don't like that as well. That's really good. That's how we mature in Christ, right? That's so good. We don't like that. You know, we like to have our It's my right, you know. Like we live in America. It's my right to do it. Whatever you bear arms. And what you're saying is what you're saying, Paul is saying I'm bearing arms. You have no rights. We have no rights. My right is to make sure that the three of you in this room see Christ in my life, and that's it. It's good. July 19th, folks. Kelly's preaching, right? First Corinthians chapter nine. You guys can all go on vacation. The apostle. The prophet. Mike, you uh do not say that. We should spice up the intro video for her when she's speaking. Ladies and gentlemen. Now everyone will do it. Yeah. We can't go to that church. First of all, they have a woman preaching, and second of all, smoke in loud noise. I'll let you walk out. They're swinging from the ceiling. I'll uh I'll cancel the ponies. She's coming in a white horse. Oh, man.

Accountability That Actually Changes You

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So, Mike, you have uh obviously got the experience of a lot of people maturing in Christ, especially Christians. What is your thought on this process of Christians maturing in Christ? Well, I think the the key to it is the level of accountability you have in your life that you subject your life to. Because it's, you know, um I I thought about this scripture as we was talking, it's a little bit later in 2 Corinthians 10, but Paul talks about those who measure themselves by themselves. I mean, if we all do that, you know, measure, well, I think I'm doing pretty good. Sure. We like that measurement. Yeah, we like that measure. That's that standard, you know, because usually it's an easy standard. And but I was sitting here thinking, do you ever have somebody come to you and say, Oh, that you were really being immature. And you think you're being mature. And they're going, Yeah, you're really being immature. In my life, it's I've had that in the sense of in in ministry in leadership, somebody come to me and going, Nah, that was pretty immature. Or insecure or something like that. And I'm going, Oh, I thought I was being a great leader. Yeah. Only to realize, hmm, I'm not. And then I have to do something with that. What is it? I have to grow, one. I have to be willing to listen to that and then what, make a decision that I'm going to change that and grow from that, and rather than just get upset about it and go on in my immaturity and insecurity. But I think that's where Paul was coming from. He was somebody that one, as he had the authority to say it. Did they did they have the willingness to submit to that authority or accountability and grow from it? You know, I think that's the key. Yeah. I judge my life by my intentions. I judge your life by your actions. Yeah, absolutely. So I think we're very like well, I intended to do that. I intended to be, you know, say the right things. That was my intention. So if you're filling out a form, like, do you read your Bible every day? Well, it's no. Well, I intend to. So I can I can mark yes to your intentions. But and what does that mean? Right. Write a scripture of the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very subjective. Yeah. If we don't have outside accountability, our accountability becomes very subjective. And I've also dealt, and you guys have probably seen it too, people go, Oh, I'm account people say, I'm accountable, I'm accountable. Who too? Yeah. Well, uh somebody that's on the other side of the world. I mean, I dealt with that a lot back through coming through, you know, the craze of 70s, 80s, and everything, and everybody would be like, Oh, I'm accountable to this person. Really? Do you ever meet with them face to face? No. Oh, that's okay. Do you have their phone number? No. How in the world? So what their accountability was is that they were just listening to their teaching and calling them accountability, but in the reality of it, there was no accountability, and that's why they're usually they end up in a mess. So it's that faux that faux accountability, that that false uh narrative of accountability. Well, and that person who you're accountable, they know everything about you. Right? They're watching you. That's why I think mostly that accountability starts. I mean, obviously it starts in your home with what you're letting your spouse in on. They know you the best. More than anybody. Or they should. Should. They see the good and the bad and the the mornings. Yeah. I'm great in the morning. I wasn't sure if you said mornings or warnings. I was like warnings or mornings? Mornings. Mornings. I I think true authentic accountability should make you very uncomfortable. In a good way. Because me the accountability people I have in my life will ask me about the most intimate things in my life and expect an honest answer. That's uncomfortable, but I love it because it's safety. They're out for my best will, my best, you know, the best for me. And so they're asking those questions not to be nosy, but to help me keep the things out of my life that need to be kept out, and keep the things in my life that need to be kept in. I think that's where Paul was coming from in this. He's like, come on, my my desire is you guys grow, have a closer walk with Jesus. You're more committed and submitted to Jesus every day. That's why I'm writing this very challenging letter to you. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, how hard is it to go up to someone that you're with every day and look at them and say, hey, listen, you're acting like the flesh. And let me show you why. You're jealous, and here's the relationships that you're jealous with. You know, you're quarreling, these are why you're fighting. We need to have this conversation because Christ lives inside of you and you're not submitting to that. You're submitting to the world. Do we do that? I don't think we do that. Well, something Mike said was he's being asked these questions not because something happened, but because it's every day. I think that's the hard thing. We we tend to ask for accountability because something happened versus very true. Yeah, yeah. So like now we're talking about because my gosh, you you got caught. Yeah. Instead of what happens to the guys that don't get caught but get asked the hard question and it gets brought up or it gets confessed. There's a

God’s Guardrails As Protection

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difference in confession and getting caught. I mean go ahead. I think it's important how Paul through the chapters, you how he the process he he starts with reminding them, right? Like, hey, you're a saint, you're sanctified, but let's talk about the world that's still living inside of you. Versus like if we just somebody and says, like, I'm gonna chop your head off. You know what I mean? Like, I think we don't like it because it feels like rules. Like it felt like when you get to chapter five, you know, we talk about some sexual immorality. Yeah, we start talking about it but what we don't realize is that God I'm actually reading through Leviticus right now. Wow. And I I've read through it before, but I want to read it slower and like study it. And when we are just at Karygma, um I can't remember his name because my brain doesn't function that way, but um, he was said that Leviticus, all of the law is written for protection. Where I think we can see it as like so only like laws that like are written like for protection of women, like you're gonna have one wife. You're gonna like okay, so I just read chapter five today, and it was like if you see land and you steal it, you have to then go give it back and then pay restitution. You're gonna pay twenty percent more from whoever you stole it from. So it was like all this protection really for the people, but we can look at it as bad, like it's rules. So even like when Paul gets into sexual immorality, it's like this is protection for your life. Yeah. It's not so you don't do it, yes. But it's if we really looked at it as God has given us everything we need to follow him, one, but also give us guardrails. It's like Giving your toddler guardrails. It protects you. I just took a straw away from Harlow the other day because she was running with a straw. Right. And I was like, listen, I'll never tell you no unless it's going to hurt you. And then I'll tell you no. And so it's like that's what God does. Like, I'm not telling you no because I don't want you to enjoy life. I'm telling you no. Like I'm telling you not to be jealous and quarreling because it's protection on your life. Yeah. Like it's going to make you all flow better as a community of a body of Christ. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And we I mean we see this the Israelites. Yeah. They're set free and then given the Ten Commandments. They're not given the Ten Commandments and then set free. Yeah. Right? The rules laws so you guys can live in a fully flourishing community. This is going to benefit. We're not going to steal. Well, covet your new cover where your neighbor has. But why is it that we get what what what makes us what causes us to get mad? Like why why do we get upset at God's rules? Controlled by our sinful nature. Yeah. I mean, I I think we do it because, you know, you've heard the statement like I'm not a good rule follower. I'm a terrible rule follower. You know what I mean? Like it's because we we want to do our own thing. Don't tell me what to do. Wait a second. Like I get to choose. This is the reason later Paul addresses like I don't use this freedom to abuse God's grace. This freedom is put in place so that you understand you're not a puppet. But to to say like Harlow doesn't know any better to under she doesn't understand if I run like this, there's a possibility I'm gonna poke my eye out. Yeah, she doesn't know that. She's very smart though, she might. She doesn't know that. And so because she doesn't know that, we're protecting you. Most people who are who are using their heart and saying, you know, they're they're choosing lust over, you know, something else, you know, over love, and they're saying, like, I want this, they don't understand the danger of what wanting that could be outside of the boundaries of marriage. Yeah, and so God's like, I'm trying to protect you. You're following the passion. Paul is saying, I'm trying to get you to stop fighting. I can't that can't happen if you're gonna continue to follow your sinful nature. But if you follow the spirit, I'm telling you, it will lead to love and joy and peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control. That's what that's what the result is. You follow your sinful nature, man, there's gonna be strife, there's gonna be division, this is where we're gonna live. It's a warning. Yeah. And I think that's what you know the the ten commandments I saw you know through the years. We I think people of it, children of Israel, began to see this perspective is that they became ten rules. Yeah. When God's perspective was these are ten enrichments for your life. This is to enrich your life with my life, my presence, and this is how you live with me, because God was setting the standard. Yeah. Not them and it's a new standard. It's like it's not this is not the world's standard. This is my standard, and this is how your life actually will live flourishing. Yeah, this is yeah, exactly. It's not to hurt you. This is to give you life, actually. Which is amazing because how many how many laws ended up being in the Judeo law was 690. Yeah. So we took ten and we made it six hundred and ninety rules where people are like, I'm fed up with rules. Yeah. There's a rule for everything. And if you look through the the six hundred and ninety-one rules, you'll see like, oh my gosh, you're you're protecting every everything. So then it became it diminished the 10 by adding so many more, right? It diminu it downplayed like to where people are like, gosh, Christianity's all about rules. I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this. And it diminishes the power of the original plan. Yeah. Like, and and we know this, like the rules aren't here. The law wasn't made to save you. Jesus fulfilled the law. And because he fulfilled the law, we get to walk in this. And it's not a uh I f I follow the law and therefore I'm changed, but because I'm changed, I don't mind following the law. Just to make sure I clear I understand what you're saying. The the uh six hundred ninety-one rules, like added. It was an attempt to make us righteous. Yes. We thought, like, man, if we could just get all of these things right, we're gonna be righteous, which is never the case. It's not why we got the ten. Yeah. And then Jesus goes ten, six ninety-one, two. Right. You know? Yep. Yeah. No, it's good. Because he understood if you love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself, yeah. You have those two things down, you're fulfilling. Yeah.

Building With Gold Or Straw

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So he continues in chapter three, and he talks about roles and how things grow. He talks about material, and even talks about a judgment that Christians will face. Any thoughts? Chapter or sorry, twelve to sixteen, twelve to fifteen, that can be a good thing. It goes from a farmer to a builder. Yeah. When you're reading it, can be a little bit more than a lot of things. One moment we're a field, one minute we're a building. Go ahead, Kelly, sorry. I'm just saying it can be confusing, and when you read it, you're like, wait, what are you saying right now? What's confusing? What is it? What are the conclusions you've come to? Well, when I first read it, I was like, this seems a little once saved, always saved to me. And then you're talking verses 12 through 15. 10 through 10. Like he's an expert builder, meaning Paul was an expert builder. I laid the foundation of Christ. So whoever built on that foundation has to be careful. So then they're gonna use all these different materials gold, silver, jewels, hay, straw. But then on judgment day, the fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person's work has any value. If the work survives, the builder receives an award. So you're gonna receive an award reward in heaven. But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer a great loss, but the builder will be saved, like someone barely escaping through the wall of flame. And I was like, wait, what? That's kind of confusing. Yeah, but like we don't understand. So much of their buildings were done by straw and they look good. And so like not the temples. Yes, but but for the most part, like the your your people, like straw was a very common building material to where like if I'm listening to this, I'm going like, oh, straw? Like, this is what we use. And again, it was popular, it was recognized, it was comfortable. I mean, all of these things. And and that's what you know. So now all of a sudden, you know, some b some build with gold, some build with silver, some some build with precious stones, others build with wood, hey, straw. Um, but one day our works will be tested by fire. And I think that's the I think for most Christians it's like, yeah, but it's not today. Sure. So like I'm I'm I'm fine today. So I I'll get to it whenever I get to it. And the more procrastinator you are, and the more or or the more uh you know a personality you are, depends on how you're handling that that question. Like if I hear this and I go, one day you'll be judged and and you're like, oh my gosh, I have to fix this. And I think there's some people like eh, I guess. Well, you also have people that can like like to work for a reward, which is not me. I don't care if I get a reward. Yeah. So it's like the people that don't like to work for a reward, you're like, I'll build with hay. Yeah. Well, but Paul's not saying I'm gonna survive. Paul isn't saying did you build? That's not what he's asking. He said, What did you build with? Yeah, with. So he's not saying he's not saying he's like, Listen, this isn't about salvation. This is about evaluation. Like you're evaluating your life. He's assuming because he he's already made mention, you're saved, but you're just immature, which tells me believers can be immature. Yeah. He's not talking about salvation, he's talking about your evaluation of what you're building. Also, like, is it um what you do in your life, does it have eternal value? Sure. It's like we talk about this a lot time with soccer. If he's like moping around about the game, I'll be like, oh, does it have any eternal value? You rub it in, don't you? I mean, the players do. The people, the players that you are in the world. So good. That's a great question. The actual win or loss of the game doesn't. Is it fun? Sure. Yeah. Is there any eternal value to it? No. Yes, but I mean, it you know, in everything you do, do it for the glory and the honor of God. That's I mean, that's a Colossians that Paul's telling the Colossian church that he's coming from an Olympic, you know, sports standpoint. Yes, true, but I'm saying if it ruins your life because you lost, yeah, I wouldn't say ruins your life. Not you, I'm saying in general. No, I I hear that, but I also know the you know the reputation you have depends on the value of what people listen to. So like if I'm I'm no disrespect, if I'm a school that's in a neighboring town and you're you're oh and fifteen. You could be a great coach, though. You could you have some really good people on your field. Sure. I mean not talented players, as in characters. I like uh their characters. Yeah, and I'm not I'm not saying, but if I said like right now, you know, if I said, all right, when it comes to uh reputation, um, am I picking you know the St. Louis Cardinals or am I picking the you know Pittsburgh Pirates? Not a couple of things. You know, from a reputation standpoint, if you're a baseball under you know, understand history and all that, you go, wow, that's a reputation, it's a big market. Uh they've they've done something, there's weight that's carried to it. So I think what Paul's saying is like, listen, I've opened doors because you know, when you have a reputation, people tend to listen. And so like I I don't know that it's as much a yes. Uh I mean, I don't know that I mope around either. Oh, you guys. Were you both here last Wednesday? Confessions. Both of you before staff meeting, I looked at him. I didn't pick up on it. No, no, no. Yeah, but you got a red card. I did not. Yeah, your player wanted on the field. Got a red card. And so Wednesday morning, he's like, and I before staff meeting, I looked at him. I was like, You're really crabby and you need to knock it off. Who cares? See, that's accountability. This is accountability. Yeah. Iron Show. How was that at lunch? No one's there to yell at you about moping around about your kids. Come on. Yeah. So we're telling me. It's important it is important how you're building your life and what you're doing. Absolutely. I thought about this on this. You we've all seen uh pictures of 1904 World's Fair in St. Louis, right? You've seen those? Were you there? Oh, she said it so I didn't have to. Let's go. I know I don't think I've actually seen any. I know that the Bird Pavilion at the zoo. Sorry, Mike. I know you weren't there. That's accountability. You were born in 1905, not 1904. But if you've ever seen it, it's elaborate, right? Yeah. All of those buildings were built like out of paper mache and everything. They were just they're fake buildings. But if you look, because they were built to be torn down immediately after the World's Fair. The only buildings that were built to be permanent was the art museum and what's the other one that's up there? The History Museum? Maybe the History Museum. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And the bird sanctuary. Yeah. All the rest of it. And I mean it was an elaborate. I mean, there's a lot of conspiracy theories there, Mike. Well, you can take us down a rabbit hole. So what that does is make me think of what Paul's talking about here is the difference between appearance and quality. Wow. Oh, good. That was good. See, there was an appearance, but the quality wasn't there. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And he's he's addressing what Jesus already addressed. Yeah. How how are you gonna know what you built when the rain comes? Mm-hmm. When the storms come. Yeah. Do you think they understand though when he's like if your work's if it survives, you're gonna s receive a reward. If it burns up, you're still going to what's he say? So you're you're basically still gonna make it. Yeah. So then our then you have two like a couple types of people. Like, I'll barely make it. That's fine. I'm good with that. And some people are good. That's the scary part. Some people are good with that. I was gonna say, this is why he's not talking about salvation. He's talking about what you're getting. It's like a rewarding. Yeah. He's saying, what are you making a priority right now? Some of you, it's divisions. Right. It's quarreling. That's your priority, and you need to stop it. I can't feed you steak because you you need to be subject to the body. Yeah, it's a difference between we we stand before the Lord, it's like, well, you made it versus well done, you're good and faithful. Well, I I think too practically, like if you think about like, let's just say, how does this look like? How do I do this in my life? Well, when you need advice, what are you doing? Are you going to ask someone first, which potentially could be something more than hay, but oftentimes it's just hay, or are you going to the Word of God first, which is gold? You know what I'm saying? Like, not that this person can't produce gold, but where are you going first? And like you think about like a lot of times we the world likes us to separate secular and sacred. So you take, for example, uh a business owner. You know what I'm saying? Like, how are you building your business? Are you building it just with like your ability to talk to a, you know, um the whatever person that can develop something great for you, or are you using the word of God also to help develop that portion of your life, you know what I mean? Versus like not separating those two things, you know, kind of thing. Uh, because everything you've built that's separate from the foundation, which primarily we can find the word of God, it you're gonna look back at your life and be like, dang, this is not good. I mean, I'm getting in, but like I could have been so much more. Right. You know what I'm saying? I could have done so much more. I could have had and even like for those of us who are living outside of purpose, why do we feel that? Maybe it's because we're building with hay and straw and

You Are God’s Temple Together

36:35

you know, and uh those kind of things. Sticks. And I think 16 too is where he comes in and he's like, By the way, you are the temple of God. Yeah. Like maybe that's a new concept, which I wish I had in my notes in front of me. But the Corinthians lived or they had this thought that their body and their soul were separate. So what they did with their body didn't affect their soul. So that's why, like, when we get to chapter five, you'll see like sexual morality. They thought what I'm doing with that with my body is not gonna affect salvation, I guess that's a good way to put it. The Gnosticism of the Yeah, yes. And so then 16, he's like, but don't you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you and not just in the building, because they're very used to that, right? Too like we're gonna go to the temple to worship because that's where the deity lives. But now he's saying, Oh, you are, so don't let anyone destroy that temple. Yeah, my notes I put the church isn't a building, it is God's dwelling place. And so when when believers, Paul's saying, when believers gossip, when they divide, when they attack or create fractions, they're damaging something that God called sacred. Yeah. Which is you know, people. Like if we're the church, when I gossip about Kelly, I'm I'm talking bad against the temple. That's good. But she's the God's spirit lives in her. That's the dwelling place. So like when you hear someone say, like, you can't do that in God's house, it's like then why can you talk bad about them when the spirit of God lives in the same spirit they raised, Christ from the dead, lives in them? And what Paul said to the Galatian church, the spirit lives inside. And so Paul's getting to this place like you what you just said, Cal. We've put so much emphasis on this building being sacred, but we've not looked at each other as being sacred. Yeah, and we still do that, right? Yes. Oh, I go to church on Sundays, yay. Like Yeah, but how do you have to monitor Saturday? Right, like the you're the temple. The building is just a building. We still have we put so much like stock still. I got maybe maybe it's not bad to like put some. I mean, we're not forsaking the gathering. But you know, like when we grew up, like you didn't walk in the sanctuary of a church. Like you didn't walk in there in shorts, you didn't walk in there in a hat, like it was still like so sacred. Well, because we made the emphasis as the buildings, the reason you had six hour services. But it's not the worst. Like there should be some respect, I guess. Reverence for the house, but like but what Paul is addressing is, and this is the reason I think he's strongly against division, is because how can the house be divided? He's saying how can where God dwells be divided when he div he lives in you and he lives in you. So we're not talking about salvation, we're talking about there's a divide in between you, and because of that, I need you guys to be mature enough to handle this conflict. How many times do we see that? Like conflict, like how many times you go, like, but they're a Christian and they're a Christian. I this I can't comprehend why we're fighting. Which is why I think he gets into chapter six when you're talking about suing. Like, why did you bring in a wicked judge to now be the ruler? I did learn not long ago that it wasn't um and those were like civil suits. Sure. It wasn't um like violent. Right. It wasn't moral. They weren't moral-based things, they were more civil, yeah. Something about a political leader wrong morally, yeah. I'm not voting for a moral leader. You know, like he's not even a Christian. Correct. Yeah. Like I I didn't know that we were we were voting for that. Yeah. Well, I think too is that you know, when he Paul's dealing with the whole thing about, you know, Paul and the Paul's, you know, the using that is that, you know, one of the things I found is is it comparison always leads to competition. For sure. Paul said, well, look, we're we're gonna be competing with the people we should be working with. Yeah. Not unity. And I thought I heard I'd read something that, like, you know, hear Paul when he leaves the church, and that's just a guess, right? But like is it's not humongous. He's been there for 18 months and it's I don't know, 50-ish people. Between

Leaders, Teams, And Choosing Sides

41:05

50 and like 200. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah. And then you get a guy like Apollos that walks in, like, that is more polished, is better communicating, all those kind of things, and it grows, but it's far more educated. Yeah, and it's not a bad thing. It's like everybody's different, and God brings growth differently. You know what I'm saying? And so like everybody's gift is important to the table, you know, kind of deal. Aaron Powell You say Apollos was way more educated than Paul? Or no? I mean educated and articulate in his education. Paul was educated. Sure. I mean, top of the class school of Gamalia, but Apollos was also very achieved. Polished, yeah. And very yeah, more polished, that might be a good word. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And approachable. I mean, you know, carry you know you've heard people say they carry themselves well with confidence. Yeah. Paul probably didn't have a lot of like a physical presence when it comes to confidence. No. Some scholars say Paul was probably short-tempered. I could see that some of his writings he does sound a little bit. There's a new book out that is um The Traumatized Pastor, and it's about Paul. I have not ordered it yet, but I'm gonna order and read it because it's it's a really interesting thing. It's really interesting. That's very interesting. Traumatized pastor. That's interesting. Well, if you know when he's he's thrown in jail, he's all these things, so he go through all these traumatic events. I don't know. And he's had highs and lows, right? I mean, there's highs. I mean, I've my belly's been well fed. I know what it's like to live that way. John Mark. One of us is going, come on. It's a kid. Oh my god. He's out of here. So good. I'm done with him. I'm done with him. Well, chapter three has been good. Chapter three has been good. Any closing thoughts before Kelly prays us out? Don't boast about following any human leader. I think we still do that to this day. Well, and it's like, again, I don't want to get back into it, but it's like, why would you do that? God brings the growth, not any human leader. Trevor Burrus, Jr. I think we still have not wrapped our mind around that concept. Well, I mean, I think it's because the culture that we live in. Yeah. Like we talked about. Because we still like the polished, educated, uh confident charisma. Like we are still drawing that to this day. It's marketing. But it doesn't mean that like a very that's I mean, finding that in one person, I think, is hard to like I think there's a niche. Yeah, I mean I might say I'm charismatic, but I won't say I'm well educated. Um I mean things. You know if you take like I was thinking of this too, like you take well educated. You're usually well educated in one area. Yeah. So like even like I'll take, you know, Dr. Cowic, she's my favorite. She's a New Testament scholar. So she's very well educated in the New Testament. Yeah. Doesn't mean she she knows the old testament, doesn't mean she doesn't. But it's like you do. So then I was like, I was listening to uh Rachel Cruz the other day, which is Dave Ramsey's daughter. And you I would take her as a very well educated human being. And she was like, I can't spell. My spelling's terrible. Mm-hmm. And so what they were spelling something on the show. And I was like so shocked by that. So it's like Yeah, I think, Pastor Jamie, our story I don't like what our story in regards to teamwork and skill set and gifting. I don't mean my wife and I say this all the time. Like, I don't think that you and Jamie could have done what you did when you were 20 years old. Right. When you were 30 years old. You didn't have the maturity and understand that like everybody on the team is valuable. And it's one of the reasons why I would contribute, I would say that we have longevity on our team. Sure. It's like it everybody is valuable to the growth of and maturity of Christians, and everybody's playing a very specific role in that. You know what I mean? Like, and I think it's the it's uh like one of the evidence to longevity in our team is that we value everybody's position on the team. We get better at it and better at it and better at it, you know what I mean? But it's like, why would you why do you think like I mean, I all the time people like they come to me like, hey, have you ever thought about being number one? I'm like, uh no, I like I love and it's not because it doesn't I mean I know some number ones that I could crush. You know what I mean? Like totally. I'm like, yeah, I could do your job way better than you're doing it. You know what I'm saying? It's so but it's the idea of like, do you know, we say this language all the time, do you know your lane? Are you willing to s to commit to that lane and under but we as a team under w we give value to that your lane helps everything grow. You know what I mean? Like does that make you know what I'm saying? I think we do a good job of like that everyone's part of the body of Christ. Like on our staff. I mean we do uh but like that everyone on our staff plays a role in the body of Christ and the two of you specifically, and even probably in this last year, we've had to do a lot of like listening and learning from each other, especially because we have a lot of women on the team and we have more words typically, or like um our brains process things different than you guys. So you have had to, all three of you, sorry Mike, I'm leaving you out. Um you have had to sit back and listen to other opinions and perspectives of things, and you guys have done a good job of like, oh yeah, everyone here brings value to the team because everyone plays a role in the body of Christ as we lead the church. Yeah, yeah. Well I think you, you know, as you grow, you realize I don't want to do those things. It's not that I can't. Right. Like if someone said like you step right into youth ministry, yeah, my with my eyes closed. Like I can do it. Yeah, doesn't mean I want to or I should. I think that's the question. You know, Carson's been home a couple days and he was in the car with me, and we're talking about man, church was just 15 years old, and he's like, Yeah, and he's like, So you were 34 when you planted the church. I was like, Yeah, it sounds really weird to think about it, especially as he gets closer to you know 34, yeah, that age, and I get further away from it. It seems like that is crazy to think that that was happening, and we're talking about you know when those things happened, and I was like, you know, when you look back and go, what you just said, like you've grown to where you realize like I went through a phase of like the fear of missing out, like was a huge part of like I wanted to be at everything, and then you hit this place where you're like physically I cannot do that, and I have to trust people to do it, and that they can do it well, and then you got to make them the confession of going, and they could do it better than I could. And I think that's the the hurdle that I think guys in their 70s right now are like, I can do this thing and I can do it better than anybody, and you're like, No, dude, you need to you need to adjust and realize that there's a team coming after you, and they're coming after you whether you die, you know, whether you die or this dies. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of two things is gonna happen. Something's gonna die. Yeah. Are you gonna kill the church before you die because you're unwilling to give up those things? And and that to me is arrogance. That's the pride factor. And so realizing like man, I get to decide like why would you not go? Man, I get to decide what I get to be involved in now versus the things that I have to do. Right. Now there are people, like, this should be how it is, Mike. What you're doing should be how it is. But to think at 72 there are guys out there going, nope, I'm doing what I did at 32 or at 42, and you're like, dude, you're you're not gonna make it like that, you're gonna kill this thing. Miserable. Why? Oh I don't even get that. No. But again, I think but I also think just like we talked about with celebrity pastors and people, I think there is a people perspective that says, I really like what you had to say. I mean, it's what happened to me at Destiny on some levels when when Jim says there's some people that like listening to you more than you should have answered that that statement by going, like, that's not what we're about here. Yeah, we're we're not judging how people speak on a weekend. And I was the guy in the room, like, you know, I do this three times a year. It's easy to come up with three, you know, really good hits. Absolutely. You know what I mean? It's like that that's not what we're judging things by on then whether they have this job or that job. People have people have messed that up, which is why I understand when Moses is coming back to people and be like, you guys, I couldn't even be gone that long, and you already made a calf out of your own stuff and you're worshiping it. Like, right. What are we doing? This is what Paul's doing. Yeah, guys, I've not even been gone from you, and I'm getting these letters of you guys fighting and arguing, like, what happened? We had such a great time when we were together. You you seem to be getting it. Now, some of you, you you're choking on the steak because you're not ready and mature for it. And I think what you just said it illustrates so well what Paul's saying. When the fire comes and everything burns, what's left? Yeah. Like when you when you're gone, you're thinking, when I'm gone, what's left? And if I don't build with the right things, there'll be nothing left. And you we've seen the but especially Pastor Mike, obviously, you've seen that. When the leader leaves, right, and he's gone, there's nothing left. Well doesn't mean he didn't make it to heaven. Doesn't mean he didn't make it to heaven. It just means how miserable is that, right? That that's what we're talking about. Like, this is why we're how many souls aren't gonna now go to heaven because you're unwilling to let go of something that you're holding on to. Yep. Verses like you look back and you're like, we built with Jesus gold, and everything's gonna continue to go. You guys have heard me say this a lot is the biblical definition of success is succession. If what your building doesn't have succession, it's a failure. It's it's the labored in vain. Because it's not about you. It's not about you. And I mean, you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, you'll see God's big thing was succession. You know? And I I I've kind of picked this up as you know my a personal quote or motto for me. I just heard it within probably the last few months, but it says, My fruit grows on other people's trees. So that's what I want. I want my the fruit of my life to be growing on your trees, not my tree, on your trees. Because that's that succession is when you start bearing fruit because of yeah. That's his quote. Yeah. Yeah. Because of um what you've invested in other people's lives and given away. It's the whole thing that you talked about, you were just talking about, Jamie, is the failure of most, I'll I'll use this, the failure of most senior leaders is their success. Because they don't understand that success is just the second part of your journey, the third part of your journey is significance. That's where you start giving away everything that you've gotten. Trevor Burrus, Jr. And that same thought translates to carpenters, plumbers, mechanics, nurses, doctors in life. Like we talk about it in the context of our world. You were talking about your grandpa, grandfather. Perfect example of that. That's a perfect example of building something with gold. Yeah, that home, that home. Yeah. And he would he wasn't going to be going like, no, I don't want Jake having my house. No way, that's my house. That's what that would sound like. Yep. That's what that would sound like. I don't want you pastoring this church. This is my church. It's not actually. I know Hayes was talking about like they're asking a bunch of questions, and and he said one of the guys said, like, you seem to be more like all of all of the guys that are interning and where he's interning are different. And he's like, There seems to be this level right here where you strive and are different. And he's like, I had to sit back and like really think of that. And he's like, you know what I equated it to? And I was like, what? And he's like, years of watching you. I was like, huh. You thought of that? And he goes, No, it's just like what they were what they were comp complimenting about me didn't come from me. It's not what I it's not what I've done, it's what I've learned. He goes, and so that I just that's that's what I've learned. I see it as like that's just how it is. Right. He goes, but they saw it as where did you get that from? That's what you're saying. Like, where's that fruit from? That's not your fruit. No, that was a fruit someone else gave. And that's how we should be, obviously, in every in everything we do, whether it's players, kids, and grandkids, like you want them to pick up some of your fruit. I want Harlow to to act like Kelly. I want her to be patient like Kelly. And she already is. Yeah. I want her, but I want her to be fun like me. You know what I mean? Like I want there to be a side where there's like, oh, but I got this from my grandpa. You know, I got this from and that's what we want in everybody. Not not from a drop a name standpoint, but but that's what we want to impart. You know, that's that's legacy, something you depart before you leave. That's the definition. Not afterwards, before you leave. That's the definition. Yeah. And that's a treasure to see that, I think, in your life, to see something in another generation. And I think back to, you know, that's what Paul was wanting. He was wanting to see something of his life and influence be eternal, be, you know, generational in the Corinthian, you know, in the Corinthian believers, and not just it be in vain. It's like, okay, you guys are going to use this through quarreling and bickering and egos and everything else and ruin everything. I want us I want to see the fruit of my labor in your life. So Kelly, we said somewhere about you praying 20 minutes ago. I know.

Legacy, Succession, And Closing Prayer

54:55

So not that you have to. We keep on going, but what a great conversation, guys. What a great conversation. God, thank you for bringing us together and studying the book of 1 Corinthians for the summer. I pray that you help us to learn more about your word and what's the some of the deep meaning behind the teachings of Paul and how they could relate to our lives today. God, I pray that you help us to see the places that our sp our um fleshly nature is still taking over, God, where we're following our sinful desires, and that you heal those places of our heart, and that we have ears to listen to you, God, and feet to do what you tell us to do. Thank you, and go with us this week in Jesus' name. Amen.