1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 4 | Kayce, Mike & Mattea

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Transcript

New Intro And Warm Welcome

SPEAKER_05 0:10

All right. New music.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh, and new intro music.

SPEAKER_05 0:15

New intro music. I haven't heard it yet. I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

That's my first. Nice.

SPEAKER_05 0:19

Oh, were you supposed to play that? Yeah, that's a little button. Like, that's my first. Everyone's first.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome to. I was thinking, welcome to She Wakes.

SPEAKER_06 0:31

That's not our music, though. No, I was prepped. I know, I knew how to start this today. So we are rolling. We press the right buttons. I think. What if they listen to this? They're like, no.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Like, well, that's the theme song now.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Well, it's the theme song now. We just made an executive decision.

SPEAKER_06 0:49

Yes. I don't know. I feel pretty confident with who's in the building today. I think we have a wise team. I feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

You know, I was I was thinking about this on the way over. What um I I feel really um I've I've been looking forward to this, excited. But just to what a privilege for me, I think, to sit in here with the two of you who I respect highly as you know wives, moms, but in in your leadership roles in the ministry, and what the two of you, the giftings that you carry, and what you bring to this team and to the culture of this church. And so I'm like, I just want to sit back and listen to this.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

Oh man, please don't. Please don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

No, because you you both bring such unique, I think, perspective to things, even at in staff meetings we're talking. I'm I'm like, I know I would I would have never thought that way, but that's that's really cool. Thanks. That's why I love hanging around younger people. So we are the younger.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

I'm like mid now. I'm almost 35.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Oh, Casey.

SPEAKER_06 2:00

Is that mid? No.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

For me, mid is about 50.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

Okay. I'm looking forward to like 40s. I feel like that's a good time in life.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

You know, I somebody asked me uh a while back what I thought was my most my strongest years.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

And at first I'm thinking back going, okay, we're talking stamina, strong. Well, I could run the fastest. Whatever. And and uh as I thought, I thought, I haven't come into it yet.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Oh, I think my strongest.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Because if you st if you study just even success, um most of the the you know successful business, the entrepreneurial, the inventive type of people, most of them were like, you know, like Edison and all that. It was in their 70s and 80s.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

That's that's where their renown was.

SPEAKER_06 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And so I'm like, I gotta hope yet.

SPEAKER_06 2:57

I feel like it's wisdom to look ahead. Well, actually, what I think is wisdom is not being able to say, oh, I was the wisest and the strongest at that age, like looking back and saying, not necessarily future things, but being able to say, man, how much I've like grown and learned and developed up to this point, stronger, wiser, better is yet to come. I just I don't know. I think the ability to look at the unseen is very wise.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And strong. I think too is some of it is you look back and go, wow, I was really immature then. Lacked wisdom and really immature, you know.

SPEAKER_06 3:35

Well, the wise part is learning from it and moving forward. We don't none of us want to go read our junior high note. Wow, I was shocked that Pastor Jamie was reading high school notes on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

That was I listened to the message. That was yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:53

I mean, people were laughing so hard. That was so brave of him to share. So funny. But I also have a box of notes in my house that I'm considering disposing of before my kids can they're just so cringy, they're so embarrassing.

Measuring Impact Beyond Your Lifetime

SPEAKER_06 4:10

Like, uh, I don't know. I'm like, please don't ever find these.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

So here's a thought I had coming over today, another thought. Um, back to, you know, coming into your best years or whatever. And my thought was the reality of your impact, because it we all want to make an impact, right? So the reality of reality of your impact is determined by how quick people stop talking about you after you're gone.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Because I I think about the impact that like uh Pastor Elmer Murdoch, who mentored me for a season in my life back in the 90s, I still talk about him all the time because he had made such an impact in my life. And I'm like, that's the kind of impact I want to make.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

To where when I'm gone, you know, one or two decades later, somebody's still talking. My motto of late is I want my fruit to grow on other people's trees.

SPEAKER_06 5:10

Ooh, that's a good one. Wow, that's cool. But again, it's not it's not for your benefit. No. That again, that's what I think is humility and wisdom is like passing off. Well, and I learned the phrase, the quote from you um, the wise man plants trees under whose shade he'll never sit. I love that. And I'm like, what am I cultivating now that I'll never get to be a part of or see? But it's the eternal godly kingdom thing to be a part of.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:37

And I think that it takes I think a lot of people are building things that what they want to sit in someday, but it's it takes a lot of humility and wisdom to build something you'll never benefit from. Yeah. I'm like, ooh, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

That's and I think that's it that takes a level of sacrifice to do that. But I think true sacrifice is when you're willing to do that knowing that you'll never get to experience and that's you know, that's the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Right?

unknown 6:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

We're sitting here generations later, the people that, you know, we read about that, but they, you know, that Hebrews 11, whatever, that they made all these sacrifices that we we get to, you know, experience, build on, gain from. And so every generation has to realize they're gonna, you know, for this to keep moving as God planned it, we we have to be willing to sacrifice.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

Uh when you guys when you guys were talking, it reminded me of this quote I saw uh a couple weeks ago. And it's the greatest mark of leadership is not how far you go, but how far others go because of you. Oh wow. I was like, isn't that so true? Yeah, that's good. Because sometimes when you're like in a leadership role or even you know, in charge of a Bible study or like any leadership role, any level, it's sometimes it's hard not to make it about like you. Oh yeah. Like, oh, I need to go. It's like, yeah, but if you're just a true leader, is being encouraging and letting other people flourish. Yeah. Not, you know, like a mother and a father. Like now I have to pause on my dreams and help my little kids, you

Reading 1 Corinthians 4 Together

SPEAKER_04 7:25

know, yeah, achieve their dreams. Like that's my goal right now. Yeah. That's so true. That's good.

SPEAKER_06 7:31

Well, so we are today talking about now, Pastor Mike, you might need to keep us in line. I don't know if you've ever listened, but the She Wakes podcast is about an hour. And I think we have a good time though. I think the the Life Lessons podcast is about not an hour.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

So So is it like 59 minutes or something?

SPEAKER_06 7:53

Um, it's like we can say no, we didn't do an hour. I know, yeah, there we go. So we're shooting for like 55, which actually the clock isn't up. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Oh, time is relevant, Casey.

SPEAKER_06 8:03

Yeah. Well, I don't have a clock, just so you know. We'll have to be keeping on that. So I will go ahead and read kind of the key verse where we're starting. We're talking about all of 1 Corinthians chapter 4 today, but I'll read the first part and then let's just jump into it.

unknown 8:16

Perfect.

SPEAKER_06 8:17

This then is how you ought to regard us as servants of Christ and in those as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or any human court. Indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing for the appointed time. Wait until the Lord comes. He will bring light to what is hidden in the darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God. One thing I didn't have a ton of notes on this, because I feel like a lot of it's really straightforward. But one thing that I actually heard from a friend is the word he uses for servant in verse one is different than the word that's used for servant, I think 120 times in the New Testament, um, which is I think do los is the word that's now when none of us here know Greek and Hebrew fluently, just so you know, don't be intimidated. But normally the word Paul uses for servant, like in Romans 1-1, Philippians 1.1, James 1.1, Peter 1.1, in his greeting, he's calling himself um a servant or a slave to the gospel, to the message. But this word he uses here is different, and it means officer or minister or someone, an assistant or subord subordinate working for a higher ranking power. So it's interesting that it's different than just a slave. Like this is your job you have to do. And it's more like an officer, someone working for a higher purpose. I thought it was interesting that he just used a different word. Kind of it can't be out of the blue, it had to be intentional. So that was something I thought was interesting. That is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

I think that's actually too, if I remember right, where we get the word doula.

SPEAKER_06 10:14

Ooh, doula. Yeah. Mateo's about talking about birth now. Yeah.

Servants Entrusted With God’s Mysteries

SPEAKER_00 10:20

No, but I mean, what's a doula do?

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Yeah, the birthing coach.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Yeah. Coaches you. Hope you birth something.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

And that's kind of what Paul's talking about here, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Oh, yeah. Wow. I think m that just like clicked in my brain.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, and with that, what you going back to what you said, Casey, is that you know, the servant is something demanded or whatever, but faithfulness is a character treat. It's not a conditional demand. It's a character treat that we faithfulness is like to the reality of it is I can't demand either one of you to be faithful. Now, you can do what I say, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're faithful.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

And and that's I think what the Lord is asking us is to be faithful in that it's the it's the mandate we put on ourselves as a character trait rather than just a command that a rule that we're gonna follow. I have to do this because I'm a Christian or I'm a you know, whatever. Sure. So I have to do this.

unknown 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:30

Well, I feel like I think you can use marriage a lot to make things make sense. And when you said that, like I can do all the right things, it doesn't mean I'm faithful. It's kind of like a spouse that's just sort of checking the boxes because I love the Dr. John Deloney show. I just love his advice. He's a therapist online that people it's a podcaster. Anyway, people will call in and they're talking about issues they're having with their spouse, and they'll say, Well, they don't hit me, they're not doing this, they're not cheating on me. But and he's like, Yeah, but you kind of have like spiritual and emotional infidelity happening here. Like, yes, they're checking the boxes, they go to work, they're present, they're not cheating on you, they're not, you know, A, B, C, whatever. But you're lacking in this relational side, like intimacy as a whole, like knowing the person and having like a teamwork and a connection with that person. And so I think sometimes with God, we can go through the motions and just sort of we're doing the right things, maybe for the right reason, but it's like sometimes you're missing out on like the true connection with him and like an examination of yourself. And so, yeah, just checking the boxes, just doing it. I like you said, without being faithful, like through and through.

Faithfulness Beyond Checking Boxes

SPEAKER_06 12:40

Because God wants our heart, not our stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

And I feel like what Paul was saying too is like it's so easy just to talk, just to, you know, say stuff, talk the talk. But he's like, I don't just want you to talk, I want to see the power in you know, in you, the power in the actions and the and being faithful takes action, not just you know, your words.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

I was thinking about this in in our uh in our culture, we're intoxicated with image.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

And and the reality of that is if you really what you know, if you you look at the lives, or if you know I happen to know an influencer. So I ha I happen to know, not in depth, but I happen to know their life outside of social media.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And it's wanting. It's not what they project on social media, the image. And so it's almost like it's almost like they're worshipping their image on social media, but not being attentive to who they are outside of that. And I think that's a that's a huge character element of our culture today. Just as Paul was dealing with the character all element or issue of, hey guys, you know, this is you know, you're trying to, you know, who if if my Paul's camp, am I Apollo's camp, you know, all this like who what social biblical influence influencer or am I following or am I trying to be rather than just being a being Christ-like, as much Christ-like as I can, and letting that be an influence rather than focused on me being in that make sense?

SPEAKER_06 14:43

Yeah. Totally. And I think when I think there's a pride in wanting to, I think this is what you guys talked about on your podcast with like idols, is I want to make it a point which camp I'm in, or like whose side of the the theological question or whose stance I take on this or that, like Apollos, Paul, this, that, like you you almost want to make your opinion on things known, like it's a part of your identity rather than like what you said, like, no, I'm seeking Christ. I really related to where he says, Oh, I switched, I flipped the page. Where he says, My conscience is clear, but that doesn't prove I'm right. That's like my new prayer for myself. Like, and not just like, he's not just saying, I don't feel convicted about it. Like, I feel fine. It's more of like an intentional examining of himself. Like, I think other translations say it differently. I'm not conscious of anything I've done out of line, but that doesn't mean that I haven't. And so that's kind of where I want to live. I'm not saying I'm gonna do and say everything perfect all the time, or that I'll

Image Culture And Hidden Motives

SPEAKER_06 15:50

have the right stance or take or understanding on everything biblical all the time, but my conscience, hopefully in humility, will be clear before the Lord. I didn't intend to lead anyone astray or like, you know, slack off or misunderstand. My intent was always to pursue the Lord. And along the way, I may have gotten it wrong here or there. But I think that the I think the Holy Spirit can protect you and those around you when the intent of your heart is to know him and to serve him, and we human it a couple times. You know, you're not gonna I I would I don't know, maybe you can speak to this seeing ministry longer than me, but I think some of the times when people are severely harmed or like church hurt, it wasn't just a mistake on someone else's part. I think a lot of times it was intentional selfishness or oversight or unlovingness to someone. I don't know, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:44

I just hope that God can protect other people from me. My intention is good. I don't intend to lead anyone astray. Doesn't mean I was right about everything.

unknown 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

I always say that when I'm like in conversation with someone. And after I'm thinking about the conversation, I'm like, should I have said that? So I just pray, Lord, if I shouldn't have said that, erase those words from their memory. I literally pray that too. I pray that too. I'm like, I just pray that they forget it if I was not supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

I'm like, erase it right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

I tell you, I I say this all the time to people when I'm with them. I say, look, my opinion and four bucks will get you a cup of coffee and start.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

And that's about all it's worth. Okay? So but if Jesus said something, that's it. That's put value in that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And so it's not that we don't, you know, value other people's like, you know, the wisdom the two of you for you know that you've gained and gleaned and understanding everything. I value that, but I can't let that be my soul. This is well, Casey said this. So one of the other things that because I I get a lot of calls, what should I do about this in ministry? What should I do about this from leaders? What should I do about this? What should I do about this, that, you know? And I'll tell them, I'll say a wise man, Pastor Murdoch, said to me years ago, he said, you're most influenced by the last person that you talk to.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

So make sure the last person you talk to is Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 18:20

Ooh.

unknown 18:21

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

I was immediately going through people.

SPEAKER_06 18:22

I was like, who's the last person?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

So Jesus. Um and I've never forgot that. And I and I've done that in my life.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

And and have seen the benefits of it. And so I don't want the last person, I don't want to be the last influence in somebody's life.

unknown 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And they come back and I go, Oh, great, that was great. That didn't work out.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

You know? You said this and that didn't work out. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

I always put it in back in God's hands too. I'm like, here's my advice, but I want you to fast and pray because like I prayed about this, but I can also be wrong. So I'm giving this advice, you know. Yeah. And I'm like, take it back to Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

And I think that's kind

Recalibrating Back To Jesus

SPEAKER_00 19:05

of what Paul's doing here, right? He said, Hey, you guys are leaning way to Paul's camp, Apollo's camp.

SPEAKER_06 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

It should be Jesus' camp.

SPEAKER_06 19:13

Don't forget the main thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Yeah. The first thing.

unknown 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:16

Well, I heard an analogy one time, or maybe I saw it was an illustration, where um, like when you're setting up a camera, so we do this when we're like calibrating our cameras in the auditorium. You someone will go and hold a clean white piece of paper in the front, and then it will auto-balance the true white. Because when you pull it away and say you've the, I don't know, I don't want to use camera terms, the brightness of the shot has changed over and over and over again. Your eye doesn't even realize, but the screen has like yellowed or it's pulled cold or whatever. And so when you put a true white piece of paper in front of it, it can like recalibrate and like come back to true right, true white. And so sometimes if you're like, especially like say you're new to the Bible, and the first couple of days, like, whoa, boom, boom, boom, like all these epiphanies. And then maybe you're on a little rabbit trail. We've all been there online, like, oh, did you know this or this thought or that, or this actually streams to this and that? And it can start to get a little murky. And I think just always remember to come back to true the truth, like the true Jesus, and let him recalibrate the view of everything all the time. Even if you've been reading the Bible for a hundred years, we always need to come back with a fresh blank piece of paper, true Jesus. Just look at it, let him refresh, reset our eyes, reset our minds.

unknown 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:41

And so kind that he does that for us too. Because man, we get in some rabbit holes. I do sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

That was a that was a very good analogy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:51

Wish we could show you. If we were on video, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

I could hold up a weapon.

SPEAKER_06 20:55

I could show this example. So, Pastor Mike, you will be preaching on this on Sunday. So you want to give us a little preview of s where your head has been, where your thinking is right now?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Well, is that kind of like how we started out? Don't spoil it. Okay. I won't I won't give it all the way, but is that I'll give you the title to my working title for it is when character matters more than image. And that's what I see today is the big challenge is that image seems to be uh you know the more prevalent thing that people are concerned about when it's actually character is what will carry you. And um you know, there's so much that I uh part of this too goes back to for me at the beginning of the year, you know, I always ask the Lord what he wants me to focus on for the year for what I do, you know. And one of the words was discernment. So that's

When Character Leaks Gradually Then Suddenly

SPEAKER_00 21:55

kind of what I've been preaching as I've been traveling, is about discernment and the times that we're in and But the other thing, probably more uh personal for me, was the Lord said, I want you to focus on investing in your character. And at first I'm kind of like, okay, is there something that's off? But I think as I prayed about that, I believed that it it wasn't so much that it was off, but that it could get off if you're not investing in your character. How do you invest in your character? Well, is my yes being yes? Is my no being no? If I say something, am I following through on it? Is where am I letting my thoughts go? All of those things, you know. Um and so it's so easy to allow your, you know, because everything in your life leaks, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Vision leaks, physical energy can leak, you know, all of that if you're not attuned to it and not investing in it, your character um can leak. There was a there was a quote, let me see if I can pull it up. This will be one of the things that um Bear with me here.

SPEAKER_06 23:18

Oh, you're fine. I should play our music again.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

I was gonna say the the waiting music.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Okay, here it is. And in Hemingway, Ernest Hemingway, in his um classic novel, The Sun Also Rises, uh, one of the characters were asked how he went bankrupt. And his reply was two ways, gradually and suddenly.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

And I think that's with character. I think that's with a lot of things in our life. We think, oh my gosh, all of a sudden? No, it was actually gradually.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

But suddenly was just the revelation of what you allowed to gradually let go in your life. And I think that's what the Lord was dealing with me about. It says, don't let your character have any degrading, you know, gradually lessening. Keep investing in it so that you know it's where it should be, it's growing, it's vibrant, it's alive, it's it's it's directing, it's you know, uh speaking to my life.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

So a good guide to that is uh following the fruits of the spirit.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

I just did a deep dive in the fruits of the spirit in Galatians five. Uh first it talks about like the sins, and then it talks about the fruits of the spirit. And I like dissected like the sins and dissected the fruits of the spirit, like looked up every definition. And it's so crazy to like actually like I feel like growing, I grew up in church. So like the fruits of the spirit is just like, you know, oh, just the love, just be joy. But actually knowing what those words actually mean. Oh, their meaning is so much deeper than what we have labeled it to be.

SPEAKER_06 25:08

Right. And I'm like, oh it's cool. I'm a nice person.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

I'm kind. It's like, actually, are you loyal? Are you just more so it's so gold?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Or it's a great memory verse. We've memorized it.

SPEAKER_06 25:21

Right. There's songs about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

But are we but are we living it?

SPEAKER_06 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

It's what I call going from theology to realology.

unknown 25:28

Yeah, reality.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

I like that. That's are we going to flesh it out, you know? Here's a couple other things that I'll share on Sunday. Your image opens doors, your character determines determines how long you'll stay in the room.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Aaron Powell Oh, wow, yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

It really is. I mean your character determines how long you're you know, if we're talking you know, whatever you're doing, whether it's you know profession, vocation, business owner, ministry, your character is what's gonna sustain you and keep you, you know, in the in the place of being able to be who you are and do what you do. Because you know, if you're a dirty rotten scoundrel, nobody's gonna keep you around. Um from that, there was a prayer. I read this a number of years ago, and and I thought, uh, that's good. I'm I w I'm gonna take that as my I and I pray this often is Lord, give me character that is greater than my gifts, and humility that is greater than my influence.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Aaron Ross Powell Can you say that again?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Um Lord, give me character that is greater than my gifts, and humility that is greater than my influence.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Because here's the thing is if you know I've been around long enough to to have seen some of this, but um many of the people that through the the the years and whatever that we've seen in ministry we've seen fall, it's because of that right there.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Is that their gifts became greater than their character.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

And they they got enamored

Gifts, Humility, And Real Fruit

SPEAKER_00 27:05

with their gifts and not the gift giver. And so that decayed their character. Because I've been around I've been around some big name ministry people. And some of them I could tell you, man, they are like their character was impeccable. Who they were on the platform is who they were in the green room. And I've been around some that I got up, I literally got up and walked out of the green room because of their character.

SPEAKER_06 27:33

Man. That's a I think that's a warning on both sides. Don't idolize somebody, your favorite speaker, worship leader, author, whatever. Also, don't throw rocks at somebody. Like someone who loves us, you may have. I'm telling you, if my name is ever big and plastered somewhere and someone looks up Facebook from 2006, I'm gonna be real embarrassed about some stuff. Like, please don't judge me based on those things. But like people are doing that. They're like throwing rocks at this person. Well, I don't like them. And like what you're saying, you don't know behind closed doors they could have an incredible character or not. So we shouldn't be, I don't know, cancel culturing culturing someone or idolizing at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I I will put out one name. I'll get I'll name a name. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 28:25

Name time. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Reinhard Bonkey. Heard of him?

SPEAKER_06 28:29

I have heard Reinhart. I do know that. I think I know who that is.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Amazing evangelist. I mean, dude, Crusades in Africa with millions of people showing up. I mean, crusades all over the world, but Africa was where his passion was. And and I would I had was with him taking care of him right after he had done the one um outreach in Lagos, Nigeria, that over a million people showed up.

SPEAKER_06 28:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

And and so of of anybody that could I mean he'd written books and I mean he was Reinhardt Bonkey, everybody, you know, all this the impact that he was having. And so I pick him up at the airport and I go over to grab his his bag and he goes, and because we had met, you know, and everything. I went to grab his bag and he goes, Michael. No, he called he always called me Michael. I don't I introduced myself as Mike, but he always called me Michael. Michael, no, no, no, no. I can carry my own bag. And I was an oh, Brother Einar, I'll get your bag. And if you No, no, no, I'm a I'm a big, strong German man. I can carry my own bag, you know. And that's the way he was. I was around other individuals who had lesser renown who would pick pick them up at the airport and they'd stand there and look at you and look at their bag, look at you and look at their bag. It was like, boy, pick that bag up.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

You know? And so I'll never forget that. And just I loved being around him. And I'm like, Lord, if I ever get to the level that he's at, I want that man's character.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

That's still that's what I hope for my life is that people around me go, I want that kind of character. Not, oh, I want, you know, I want to wear that kind of shirt or I want to, you know, I want to, you know, whatever. Yeah, whatever. No, I want to have that kind of character. That's the impact that I want to make.

SPEAKER_06 30:32

Yes. And I I know you've probably seen this, Pastor Mike. In the green room at our church backstage, I have a sign on the wall that says hunger is greater than gift. And at the bottom it says, gift desires opportunity, but hunger desires God. And I got that quote from my favorite role model and worship leader, Brooke Lidgertwood, and her husband during COVID, and they were saying 2020 took away opportunity for everyone. Like it kind of leveled the playing field. It's like no one's having conferences, nobody's church is seeding 1500 or 2000 or whatever. No one's doing concerts right now. And it's revealing where a lot of people's hearts are at. Like, are you still God was not thrown off by shutdowns or anything like that? Like, he's not, that did not ruin his agenda or his plan or his will at all. He has been consistent through it all. And so if you feel like your ministry or your influence or your life was somehow like hindered or thrown off by lack of

How To Assess Character Honestly

SPEAKER_06 31:40

gatherings, it's like, well, where is your like I would go back to character. Where's your character? Like, what are you actually longing for? What are you working towards? And so I would ask a question, because I always like to try to make it relatable to anyone who's listening. I tend to be an optimist. I tell Hayden, I'm like, in the back of my mind, even the person who completely disagrees with me on faith things, political things, whatever, I'm an optimist. I'm like, I'm sure if you ask them, they think they're right. Like they think they're they have the greater good at heart, or they they think this is truly right. I don't, I just hope there's not people out there that are just like, I'm just evil. That's why I think that way. You know, there's probably some, but in Casey's heart, there's not a lot of those. There's like, I think they think they're right, me included. Um, but what how do we assess? Like, how do I know? I sit here and say, my conscience is clear, but it doesn't mean I'm but like, how do I make sure my conscience is clear? Like, how do I know I do have character? Like, what sort of assessment, what sort of like guide can we go by to like, you know, if you're listening to them, oh well, I have wonderful character. Like, how do we make sure? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 32:52

The wisdom of Matea on this.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

I was just gonna say, like what I said before of like the fruits of the spirit. But if you think about the fruits of the spirit and you dissect them, that's who Jesus was. Like that's how Jesus treated people. And yeah, so that's like my answer. Just but not just reading. I think because I could just read the fruits of the spirit and say, I have all of these. Like, oh, I have, but then when you actually like study each one, study um and with who Jesus was and is, it's so much, it just has so much more meaning of like each word. So I would just yeah, and I think like again, of it's not what you're saying, but it's the power of the spirit of God living in you.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

And I think that's very like even uh Jody said this when we went to India of like before she went to India, she saw photos and she could see in those people's eyes of like the loss and then photos of people that had Jesus. And she goes, There is she just saw like in the eyes that there was something just different, and then something dark and something light. So yeah. So I'm like, you can see it. But again, like how I don't know, it's and just being honest with God of okay, reveal, but a lot of people don't want to say that.

SPEAKER_06 34:33

Allowing him to like David's search me. And yeah, he's like, hey, look at all of it, you see all of it. That is a scary prayer sometimes. You'd be like, Oh, I'll find something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

But and that reveals kind of your character too, of if you don't want to ask that. That's true. It's like, okay, why do you not want God to fully search you?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

I think this this is the reason that we need to keep accountability in our life.

SPEAKER_06 34:59

Aaron Powell Yeah. Like someone who knows you well.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Somebody who knows you well. I have accountability people in my life. And uh I will ask them, how do you think I'm doing?

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

And they'll tell me the truth. Many times they tell me what I don't want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah.

unknown 35:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

I think I'm that person in some people's minds. They're like, okay, I'm gonna take a break talking with you for a minute. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

No, it's i it I've I've found it that it's it's safety. You know, because we can think we're doing great, but those talk to those people that are the closest to you that love you because they're gonna speak the truth in love. Sometimes when you the truth is given to you in love, it doesn't feel good, but you know inside it's right. Like w my one one of my accountability people, I can remember one time he was we were sitting in a restaurant and across the table from me, and I was saying something, and he he abruptly stopped me and said, Mike, knock it off. Quit thinking that way and quit talking that way.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

And I was like, Yes, sir. But the I needed that. Yeah. I mean, and and because we can think we're doing great, right?

Accountability And Spiritual Fathers

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah. And then all of a sudden, gradually, we have a sudden way, and we're not doing so great. And so that's why I think people um in our lives, we have to have people in our lives like that that can reveal those things. Um go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

I was just gonna say, even in chapter four while we're reading, Pa is coming from a spiritual father perspective. Yeah. He's like, I'm saying this because like I am viewing you as my children, like my spiritual children. Like it's coming from love. Like I think sometimes it's hard to take correction just in general. Yeah. But then it takes a little bit of spiritual maturity to take correction because you're realizing, oh, like Paul is saying this because he loves us, like he wants us to be better.

SPEAKER_06 37:12

Yeah. Well, and I love what you're saying, Pastor Mike, too, about having you know who those people are who you allowed to speak into your life. Because I feel like I talk to some people who take any and every you know, critique or advice they hear. And I'm just like, I would reject that from that person. Like, not everyone has access to everything in my life. There are certain people who can speak to any area of my life. And then there's certain people I do life with that can speak to certain areas of my life, but I'm in control of that. You know, like I I ask God to, I know, always pray about it too. I'm like, this person called this out in me. Do I agree with that or not? Because sometimes I've had well-intended people observe something and say something to me that was just way off. I'm like, okay, you saw you overheard like one portion of a huge other thing that's going on. You just like, and I was like, okay, thank you. But like I'm not gonna lose sleep over this one assessment, you know. So be wise about who you're letting speak into your life, Jesus number one. And then specific people whose character you admire and want to be like, too. Like if there's someone you're like, mm-hmm, they kind of make me feel icky, but man, they sound so smart. Maybe they shouldn't be speaking into your life. You know, not just everyone has a green light of for advice.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah, that's a good point. Um, because I was just thinking about this this morning, that there was a an individual that I follow on social media on Instagram, and I just come across some information, valid information, that he was doing business-wise, he was doing some very unscrupulous things and was actually fined by the government several hundred thousand dollars for what he was doing was taking the Made in China label off and sewing labels that said made in USA. So I'm like okay, not a big deal, but I'm like, I'm not following him anymore. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah. Why is that?

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Because that's a character issue. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

I want to have influence of people that have character. Yeah. And that's an that that's very an unintegral character. So I'm gonna read. I love this um from 1 Corinthians 4 uh about the fathers. I'm gonna read it from the the uh message paraphrase uh because I love this. Uh beginning 14, uh Paul writes, I'm not writing all this as a neighborhood, as a neighborhood scold to shame you. I'm writing as a father to you, my children. I love you and want you to grow up well, not spoiled. There are a lot of people around who can't wait to tell you what you've done wrong, but there aren't many fathers willing to take the time and effort to help you grow up.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Wow. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

That's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

That is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

And he said it was Jesus help. It was Jesus helped it was as Jesus helped me proclaim God's message to you that I became your father. And he goes on to talk about so anyway, that's you know, I think here's one of my last thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

I deal with a lot of individuals in leadership my age, and I call them the lost boys. Remember Peter Pan?

SPEAKER_06 40:42

Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

They were the lost boys. They were young men that never grew up.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Why is that? Because in Peter Pan they never had fathers.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

And so I deal with individuals my age who are lost boys because they never had a spiritual father in their life. And that's a twofold thing for me. One is I'm glad I had the spiritual fathers in my life that I had. And now I'm a spiritual father to many leaders that I work with, and it puts another level of of the feel of responsibility on me to make sure that, like Paul said, I'm not here to tell you what you've done, bro. I'm I'm to help you grow up. Help you. I was just with somebody this weekend. I want to see you go long term in this.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

That's that's my that's what I'm doing. I want to make sure that you're in ministry long term. And so and I love that to have people like that around me. I love that. I think we have that as a team, really.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah, you do too.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

We do. We wanna we want to see all the uh people uh around that table. At least I do better do better than I did.

Closing Stories And Final Prayer

SPEAKER_06 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

And so anyway.

SPEAKER_06 42:07

I do we do have a very unified team. Like there's not a lot of competition, like I want your spot, you want my spot. Like I don't think we operate like that at all. If you want it. I don't want your spot. Thank you. I like you as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

You gotta you gotta take the age with it.

SPEAKER_06 42:25

I'll take it. And the wisdom and the character, I'll take that. Well, guys, great conversations.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah, I loved it. Thank you, ladies.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Pastor Mike, I always okay, I'm gonna be honest. Before I knew you, when you went to preach, I was like, okay, who is this guy? Now I know your heart, your character, and I love, I always look forward hearing you speak and your wisdom. It's my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

So I'm so excited to thank you very much. I'm like, oh, I was reminding my wife last night. I said, remember, I'm speaking at Life Community this weekend, and she goes, Oh, I get to hear my favorite preacher.

SPEAKER_05 43:05

Aw, she's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

And I looked at her and I'm like, you're sucking up.

SPEAKER_05 43:10

Something funny's coming. Just accept the compliment.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Well, yeah, but uh that's because she did a bunch of shopping while I was gone.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

The truth's coming out. So she's gonna look cute on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Yeah. She always looks cute.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

She does.

SPEAKER_06 43:27

Also, for everyone listening, we've probably said this before. Pastor Mike's wife's wife's name is Casey. Yes. Oh, yes. So whenever he's saying Casey from stage, he's not talking about me most of the time. Most of the time. I had people say, someone came up to me one time after you told a story about your wife, Casey, and they're like, that is so funny what he was saying. Like, I can't believe you. And I was like, wait, that wasn't that me. You think every time he talks, they're like, I just thought you guys were really close. I'm like, no, no, no. We are very close, but I'm not like with him every day. Pastor Mike's wife's name is Casey, and it is not me. I'm a different one.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Spell it different.

SPEAKER_06 44:03

It's spelled completely different. We're both tall and brown hair, though, so it can be confusing anyway. Yeah. It's fine. It's funny. Yeah. Anyway, just to clear it up. All right. Well, let's wrap this up. Mateo, would you want to pray for us? Yes, I can.

SPEAKER_05 44:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

Dear Jesus, I just thank you for this time and uh thank you for everyone listening. And I just pray for uh everyone listening I just pray over um our summers, and I just pray that this summer and this podcast can be a motivation for them to open up their Bibles and just read the Corinthians with us, Lord. And I just pray Lord, I pray for the people that are just waiting to hear from you and just they maybe they haven't heard your voice for a while, that I just encourage them to open your word because that's where you speak the most through your word. And so I just pray that over um the listeners that your spirit will just come and live in us, that we can um just work on our character, but not alone, that we can read your word and learn who you were as um, you know, a human and a man that walked the earth, uh what character traits you lived out, that we can just um copy that, Lord. So I just pray that you just continue to just fill us with peace and um just get rid of any distractions that distracting us away from just uh going deeper with you and reading your word. We uh give you all the glory and we love you so much. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Amen.