1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 12 | Jamey, Kelly, Jodi & Kayce

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Transcript

Roll Call And Real Life Banter

SPEAKER_03 0:13

There we go. That was great.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Sean's not here, so things are messing up. We're gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Who is here?

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Who's here? Kelly. I'm Kelly. Casey.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Mike.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Present.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Present. Oh, this is Jamie.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

We just discussed with Jamie how he talks too quiet on the podcast. So if you guys all fake that, we're trying to fix it for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I don't know. Some people are driving right now. They're like, he does talk that way. And some people are going like, man, you're crazy. First Corinthians chapter 12.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

It's the first time I've seen you in a while. Kelly, I haven't seen you all summer. All summer. I've been gone. So summer was crazy. I've been in and out. Yeah. We're back. You have been gone a while. I've been in some fun places. It was fun, but it's been exhausting. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

That's why I don't like summer at the same time. This is it. I'm a fall guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:03

A fall guy. I do like fall.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Gosh, I can't. I'm so excited in the mornings. It's a little chill. Yeah, it smells like fall.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

I hate it. How do you really feel about it? I actually the fall's fine because the sun is still shining, but I know the season of the sun not shining is coming, and that is like I'm already depressed.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Listen, I don't I don't know what's happening to me because the older I get, the more I like cold. And that's usually the opposite. Usually the older people get the more they like the warmth. So I don't I don't actually know what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

So I know I we might have to be unmarried when we're older.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

I'm pretty sure Corinthians talks about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Well, okay, we can stay married, but I'm gonna have to go to the south for the winter in Europe. In Illinois.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Next year for a 30th, I'm like, what about an Alaskan cruise?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I think the older I get, I get more lukewarm.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Oh man, you're getting spewed out.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

Good old Midwest.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Oh I just I don't know. I don't like the extreme cold, and I don't like the extreme.

SPEAKER_05 2:03

I don't like the example California where it's like 60, 80, 60.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

That's how I felt about LA. It was like 80, the sun's always shining. Yeah, it's incredible. I need I don't want to move to California, but I'm maybe I should. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

No, not at all. The hills.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Which is inner humid.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Humid. So humid. Yeah. I don't do well. My hair doesn't do well in the humidity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Maybe you should shave their heads. But you like $1.7 million.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

I'll shave my head. $1.7 million.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Although Paul says in the Corinthians 11, we shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Oh, I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah, we're coming out of Corinthians 11. She's so much shaving her head.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

The price is right, people. You're not supposed to do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Is she a guy? Is she is she observing diamonds?

SPEAKER_05 2:57

You know what though on the the clothing I was thinking, and this is just I don't know. This is just Casey Wonderings. You know how the style right now is very neutral, like very baggy, very one thing. And um, I heard a spiel on Instagram. It was this family. Um, they have their daughters always say, your clothes should be it was like loose enough for something, like something modesty and tight enough to show you're a lady. And I was like, wait, okay, I like that. Like I want my sons to like see like uh I'm attracted to girls. You know, like I want that for myself.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

The neutral clothes and the sets, like everything's set. Yeah, I think we're coming back into color, but when it was all neutral, are we all supposed to look the same?

SPEAKER_05 3:38

I've just been like, I wonder how much we are supposed to embrace men and women both embrace, like look nice sometimes, or like make sure you look like a woman sometimes. You know what I mean? Don't go too neutral. I don't know. I'm just like, oh, are we getting too you could get all into it grass?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Like I feel like we just joined the She Wakes podcast. Listen, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

You guys are welcome.

unknown 3:59

Yeah, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Can I up front? He's welcome to She Wakes.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Yeah, yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Can I say up front like a pet peeve with our podcast that I don't want to address?

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Don't say it because you're gonna throw it off.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

I'm not throwing it off.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

That would throw it off?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I just I don't like the back and forth of when this was recorded, though.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

That's what I'm saying. Don't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

This was recorded on Don't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

It don't matter. We're on chapter 12 today.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Because in all the podcasts, it's like, oh, you didn't say that yet. Or you already did say that. And so we're like, we're pretending like it was over, or pretending it was like it was always before, and it's like Oh, I didn't know. I'm not telling people when we recorded this.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

This is a secret. This is a secret. We're not telling you what day or time, exactly. Or location.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Or location. Secret until always the same location,

Why First Corinthians 12 Matters

SPEAKER_01 4:50

however. Yeah, that's true. Secretly just chapter 12.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

I actually really love chapter 12. What do you think about it? I do too. I think it gives us a lot of clarity on spiritual gifts, what they are, and who has them and who can have them. I just I don't know. I just I love it. I actually love the first opening few verses, and I had this thought today on the way here. Um, because we've been taught like since from chapter eight, Sean Shelley were eight, right? Nine, ten, eleven, like there's so much about idolatry. And here he says, when you're you're still pagans and you're led astray and swept along and worshiping speechless idols. And I was just thinking this morning on the way here, how the speechless idols are like the thing, like the ing like the golden calf, or it's like the thing you can touch. And they are speechless idols, they are nothing. But what they represent is the spirit the the evil spirit behind it is representing, and that's where you get the confusion and the chaos when you're because that's real, right? We want to think like we know the spirit of God is real, so the Holy Spirit is real, God is real, Jesus is real. And I think sometimes we forget that the evil spirits are real and they represent something in the world. And the Bible does say that um Satan is the ruler of this age, of this world. And so I was thinking, and then he's addressing dressing like women, we're addressing men having sex with men a lot when he's talking about sexual immorality. I'm like, that's what happens when you worship the idol, yeah, the speechless idol, because you're attached to the spirit. I'm like, and we still see that happening all today. Yeah, just confusing it. And it's a lot of that. So even like if you're worshiping um what you can buy, if you're worshiping your job, it like has all that same stuff. It's like you can find the spirit that it's attached to brings confusion and chaos in your life, and we can just see it all over the place. I feel like that's like chapter 12 addresses that in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

I love the uh I don't know what different versions of scripture you like. I always have up a comparison of new living with something else. And so like I I really love the New King James. I have a Bible that's New King James when I got saved. That was my first. So like his verse too is like, you know that you are Gentiles carried away to these dumb idols. So he's he says dumb from a standpoint of like these these aren't aren't just speechless or worthless, they're they're just dumb. Like that's this is what it is. They were dumb. However, you were led, so he's saying that however that happened, just know that this was dumb. Therefore, I make known to you that no one speaking by the spirit of God calls Jesus a curse, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by so he brings in this except by the Holy Spirit. So he's bringing in this. You you were serving what you just said, you were serving these, and it brought about confusion. But this is why we can say Jesus is not just savior, not just king, but Jesus is Lord of everything, which means I've surrendered everything to him. We can only say that by the Holy Spirit. Like we can't say that on our own, we can't say that in our own power. Only the Holy Spirit has drawn us away from those dumb idols to be able to say this is the truth. And I think that's the I think that to me is Paul starting out that way is he's saying, like, hey, the Holy Spirit is the source of every gift that I'm about to talk talk about. He is the source, and you can only declare first and foremost that he's Lord because of that source. Yeah. And here's what flows from it. We see what flows from these dumb, speechless idols. We're seeing it. You're dressing like men, women, women, men, you're dressing like women. You're you're taking sexual things and making them away from how God intended them. So, like, we've seen that. He's almost like saying, like, okay, let me show you uh what it's like when you serve and make Jesus Lord. This is the result of them. These gifts are the result. You're seeing the confusion over here. I'm gonna give you another picture in chapter 12 and say, because you're following the Holy Spirit and He's declaring that Jesus is Lord, here's the gifts that come from them. And that's why I like, oh, those first three verses, he's like, he's setting it up. And then he's saying, like, hey, there's different spiritual gifts. Here they all are. And that's I love the setup. I love the transition of the first three verses away from eight, nine, and ten, and eleven that gets into you know this this topic.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Well, and he says now regarding your question about special abilities, like it changes. Yes. We're changing directions.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, and I think there was a little bit of uh they were uh still dealing with some of that idolatry in the sense that they're trying to make certain gifts more important than they're which was he addressed in chapters one through four. Which I think we do today, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Oh. I listen, I mean if you talk to myself. I can go on a tangent forever on that.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

What are they gonna talk about?

Untangling The Tongues Confusion

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Speaking in tongues. Yeah.

unknown 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

I mean it's the way we were raised. Jamie.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

It's almost like that's the only gift, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:11

I thought I I thought I do speak in tongues. No one will hear me besides Jesus, which you could debate whether that's biblical or not. Anyway, I won't go there. But until I was like 18. Because we were also, because we were raised in the charismatic world, everything was up front, everything was at an altar, everyone was like in your face, and I do not like that at all. I don't want to be seen, I don't want to be made a spectacle of, I just don't like it, right? So that was never gonna work for me. Like if I'm gonna speak in tongues, I'm gonna have to search like search God on my own. And that is how it happened. Um but I thought I was broken. It was like you were broken. It's like you weren't a real Christian if you didn't speak in tongues.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Like you were unstable, or you didn't have the Holy Spirit, I guess I should say that way. Yeah, you could not obtain the Holy Spirit unless you spoke in tongues. Chapter 12 definitely says that is not true. And so in my mind, I'm like it was the assemblies of God, obviously, which we are part of now, which they've kind of changed their tune from like the 80s and 90s a little bit. I'm like, you need to then explain to me you need to if you read chapter 12, you have to explain to me where you go that you're only filled with the Holy Spirit if you speak in tongues. Because I I feel like it's very plain at the end that it's not just that. No one not everyone should. And so I'm like, chapter 12 is like big, it's just like um refreshing me for me to read as an adult now. Being like, why did no one explain it that way? Like similarly, you didn't have logos. Yeah, but like also, I mean, probably my fault too as an 18-year-old, like no one read first Corinthians 12 to me, and it's pretty plain, you know.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

I remember reading through it for the first time by myself, like just as I was kind of moving through the Bible, and I was like, oh, wait, this there's an explanation here. Yeah. I was like, wait, that's not what I see all the time, but anyway, I know the time.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

I mean it jumps up this raises up, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

Anyway, I didn't I pulled up immediately when we were on this chapter because I asked you when you're like, Keep you on the podcast? I'm like, uh, what chapter? I pulled up my notes from the women's conference when I spoke on church and like being plugged into church. I used a lot of these verses and just how they talk about like all the gifts, you don't get mad at your foot for not digesting your food, and we're not gonna go cut it off, you know. And I've I used the example in um my message that day about when you go, you're pregnant, you go and get an anatomy scan. I remember with Sage, she was like positioned a weird way, so they couldn't get a full picture of her left arm. Because you know, they do um the chambers of the heart, the stomach, they measure the brain. We got all the important things, but they couldn't measure her left arm. And they had me like wiggling, moving, changing positions. And Hayden are like, does she need a left arm? Like, she'll be kind. You need that. That's not, I mean, her brain's fine, right? Like the arm, but they're in there doing their job. They're measuring development, they're making sure, like, is there gonna be a problem? We see it delivered. And so they don't be like, oh, well, your baby's stomach didn't develop, but everything else did, so you're fine. No, you would immediately go to a specialist, figure out what's what's going on with the stomach, because one part of the body being messed up affects all of the body. So when we glorify one or the other, or this one's more important, it's like, well, without one or the other, you can't. Apparently, we can do without an appendix, but yes, other than that.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

And like, so what happens to the person who's in the church? Like, I feel like I'm the appendix. Maybe they gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

I think that's true. And to your point, like, it's not just speaking in tongues. We like healing, we like prophecy, we like speaking in tongues. No one likes just like the serving, cleaning the toilets. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 14:18

I wonder if they don't know them. Yeah, like whenever I read the list, there were things I thought were on the list that are not. Like, I always thought that dreams and visions were uh like spiritual gifts, like divvied out, you know, distributed. And I it was just a couple months ago, I read the verse where it was like everyone like all will dream dreams and you can have visions. And I was like, wait. So I started praying. I was like, wait, give me dreams and visions. I thought that was like for someone, yeah, maybe not for me.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

I was like, wait, everyone can have it. Let's read then the chapter 12, verse it's seven through eleven.

The Gift List And Who Decides

unknown 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

So it says a spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other. To one person, the spirit gives the ability to give wise advice. To another, the same spirit gives a message of special knowledge. The same spirit gives great faith to another, and to someone else, the one spirit gives the gift of healing. He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the spirit of God or from another spirit, and still another person the ability uh is given the ability to speak in an unknown language, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said. It is the one and only spirit who distributes all these gifts, and he alone decides which gift each person should have. I love it. I love it. But when you also go over to um, oh, so down at the bot uh down towards the end, um, he goes through like um parts that God has appointed for the church, which we could read those. But are we all apostles? Are we all prophets? Are we all teachers? Do we all have the power to do miracles? Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in an unknown language? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not. You should earnestly seek the desires that help is helpful the most gifts that are helpful the most. Um I'm like, wow. I mean, it's just not what I was taught.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

Well, and you know what's happening in these communities and like these churches is you start to learn, just like last week when we talked, Pastor Mike, about communion being in community.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:41

And you take a minute to examine your heart, and someone in your small group might be like, I can't do this, like I'm not right. Now the whole community is in a conversation, like, what's going on? Let's link arms, let's get you to a place where we can have communion together. And just like this, you learn, oh, so and so, they have that gift or they have this gift, and now we need each other and we can serve each other and we can encourage each other. And you you know, you learn what the gifts are because you see them like practiced in your church family. So plug in, pick a church, stay there, play, plug in.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I don't think too contextually part of the problem, I mean, not part of the problem, but one of the things Paul's trying to make sure stays in context is that in that culture there there were individuals that were going around what they would call prophesying.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

They're actually fortune-telling, and they were making a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

And so Paul's like, don't get off on those tangents. Don't and and I I hate that I even have to say this in today's church culture, but there are individuals that have made a profit off of certain gifts, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

And so we we read this and we think, well, shame on them. But the reality of it is we're still dealing with the same kind of context today that the church needs to be. Come back to the Word of God, come back to the context of what Paul was dealing with, and say, this is how we operate in these. One is, oh, let's see, I want this gift. No, it's as the what? The Spirit gifts. You know? I have there's I have friends of mine that operate very strongly in the gift of healing. I mean, it's amazing some of the things. I don't have that. Can I pray for people? Sure. Yes, absolutely. Because it's not about me, it's about God move. But they have a specific gift of healing that they've been endowed with by the Holy Spirit, and they have phenomenal things that happen. And I love that. Because we can sit in this room, the four of us probably have certain spiritual gifts that we are more given to than the others. But the four of us come into a room, and what do we do? We bring a strength to that rather than if if we all just, you know, had one gift. Yeah. And that's the thing we have to remember. So we celebrate, like Paul said, there's diversity. It's one spirit, but there's all these diverse gifts that help strengthen the community.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Well, and that's ultimately he's saying, hey, listen, consumers don't build the church, contributors do. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that's the I mean, we we have a tendency to consume more than we do to contribute. So if I can point to someone else and say, Well, your gift is I'm can't I'm usually comparing their gift is better than mine. I don't even know what my gift is. So I'm gonna just let the personality drive versus the pr participation drive. And I mean, I don't I've uh anytime I've taught 1 Corinthians 12, I love the analogy of the human body, I love that side. Um, but it's it's that it's it's a hyperbole. It he's not saying figure out if you're an index finger. He's not saying, hey, some of you in this room, you you know, you're you're the big, you're the pinky toe. Like, because I think then we would be in trouble by going like, oh my gosh, I'm just a pinky toe. I'm not as important as the kidney, you know, or the heart. You know, it's like, no, see the illustration, see the point.

The Body Of Christ In Real Life

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Um, you know, some of you know, well, all of you guys know, but like I, you know, wrecked my one wheel.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

We're falling apart awesome.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

It's it's the uh it's the like it was the first time I've been like in an accident where it kind of scared me a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Um it scared me, but I wish I would have had it on video. Uh she's she's healed, she's fine.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, the ring camera catches me going, and then I just quickly go out.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Can you hear it though?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

No.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Oh, probably not. No, it was but uh I'm the only one who actually watched it happen.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah, our neighbor heard it. Yeah, and the girls weren't paying attention. The little girls. What is the point of what I'm saying is not I'm clumsy. It's it the point was like it was funny of all of the injuries, what hurt the most wasn't the one that looked the most disgusting. It was the the part that functioned the most. So I had little scrapes on my hands that I still have scars of. That bothered me the most of anything, because Kelly went out of town, you know, a day later the next morning, and I'm doing stuff on the pool. I cannot literally turn uh the filter to to clean it because my hands aren't functioning. And I'm realizing like while my knee is scraped up and I have to put a lot of medicine on it and it looked disgusting, it wasn't the part that was bothering me. It was the part that was being used that I could no longer use. And I thought about first Corinthians twelve. It's like, you know, and what's funny is like I rolled a couple times, and the last time I rolled, I did hit my pinky toe, and like it bothered me the most of my hands and my pinky toe. So walking And using my hands are the things that were the least injuries, but the ones that bothered me the most. I mean, people look at my elbow and be like, that is disgusting. I mean, for I thought your arm was broken. For at least at least three. I mean, it was three weeks ago, three and a half weeks ago, and my my leg is still gross. I'm at soccer this past week and and I hear someone like, dude, what happened to your leg? That's gross. I mean, I walked into the ocean and it was like my leg was on fire because of the salt. And then my father-in-law was like, hey, you can keep stay in there, it's good for it. Get back in the chlorine. I'm like, it's burning my leg, you know. And but but like uh again, like it's so gross, but like the functioning parts that I needed, I could not, and they're the least injured. So when you're you're thinking about the body of Christ, Paul is saying, like, guys, you play a role. That's that's the point that you need to see. This is about participation, it's not about the hour and 15 minutes we're together on a Sunday morning that you've made it. It's about how are you being the body of Christ all the time. Wherever you go, be the church. Uh, which we're gonna really hit this.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

I just had this thought too, because we you know, and they would have heard this letter read to them, they don't have the chapters and verses and titles like we have, and so he literally just got done kind of rebuking them for how they perform the Lord's Supper, and the richer, more powerful people were coming and eating and drinking and eating all the food and being drunk, and then when the poor less let's say less uh valuable people, that's not true, but showed up. There was no food for them, there was no drink for them. And then you come over here and he's talking about your less honorable parts, which I would assume he was probably referring back to the poor and saying, like, every part of you is important, just not because you have money, not because you have power, not because you have influence. Like those people need to be more aware of the people who aren't of the same caliber as them, which I know that sounds like weird to say, but it's like he's giving them another rebuke. Yeah, like you are not the most important thing here. The whole body, everyone that's in the room, everyone that comes, everyone that's calling themselves a Christ follower now, all of you are the same importance.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Well, and he's saying you're you're not the gift giver, you're just the receiver.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Oh, true, yeah. You haven't done anything, and I think we'll see that in Christian world too. Like your friends that have a gift of healing, like probably everybody wants them to come pray for them. Like, and we kind of understand that, but the same token, everyone can pray for healing. God can work through anyone, or you know, we see people that are better speakers or whatever their fancy gifts are we call the fancy gifts. Um they get more attention from people. And Paul's like, that's not the point.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

But we understand that from a body standpoint. But what I'm saying, we still do that. We spend more time on our head.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

Well, that's what he's saying than we do anything else.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

I don't, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, I don't wash my feet like I do, like I do my hair.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Do you hold on? Do you what are you gonna say? Oh man, do you actually wash your feet in the shower? Like legitimately, you put soap on your feet and wash your feet.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I do.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Do you?

SPEAKER_00 25:25

No.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Do you?

SPEAKER_00 25:27

So if I Well, if I just mowed the yard, I will because it's usually.

SPEAKER_05 25:31

I have a weird thing. If I'm taking like a whole shower, yeah, I don't. It's just it's in there long enough. But I do wash my feet before I get in my bed every night. Um, I mean, if I stayed in the house, maybe not. It depends on how they feel. Oh, because you're walking around barefoot.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

I don't, I like my walk around barefoot a lot. You probably say cat pee. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:50

When we get home, the rules are take your shoes off and go back outside. I love it. Put the shoes in here and I'll wash back outs either. Like, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

You wash your or does Hayden wash your feet before you get together.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

No, me. I do. I do.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

I don't wash back.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

We don't want to put a maturity label on your face.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

If your feet are legitimately dirty, then you will wash your feet. But like every night he brings in a basin.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

I have a very difficult time getting in bed dirty.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah, I don't I have no problems.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I have you also have enough layers on that. You're probably not dirty.

SPEAKER_05 26:25

Yeah, the inside of our sweats is dirty.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

If I sweat at all during the day, I'm taking a shower every day in the morning. I can't.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Yeah, but you guys can take more showers. They don't have to worry about getting their hair wet and stuff. Yeah, I don't want to one shower a day. I cannot do it more than once. Well, I don't shower every day. I do shower every day. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

My point is, we understand the body illustration because we spend more time on certain parts of our body.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Our face. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

So like we we get the uh the importance of that's why I don't think I think it's wrong of us to ask the church, so what are you?

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Well, I don't think people know. And I don't think they're just shot in the park.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

I don't I don't know that that's the in the spiritual gifts test that we're going like, oh, hey, where's our hands at? You know what I mean? Like you're the finger, you know what I mean? Like that's not the point. The point is Jesus is the head. Like that's all we need to know. Like, he is the head of the body of Christ. And if we forget that, that's why, to me, going back to the illustration, we spent the most time on our head, right? I mean, hair, face, that's the most we spend time on, which goes with the illustration. Like, our attention should be towards the headship of and the lordship of Jesus. Like, that should be where everything the body functions the best when that's the most important. And I think that's his, I think Paul's point in bringing up the human body is he is addressing the the rich in the room, going, You guys think you're the head, you think you're the most important. And I'm just telling you, the Holy Spirit is the one that gives those gifts. You're not the gift giver. You don't to you don't get to decide who has what gift. The Holy Spirit is the distributor. Um, and I always think of gifts, you know, it's not something that is earned, it's something that is given. And we also see that gift is is brought in with grace. Grace is a gift that God gave. And so it's not something I've earned, it's not something that I've even asked for. God extends it. And so it is with this.

The Holy Spirit Gives The Gifts

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Like, and the more that I understand that, if I think I'm the guy, which is why you know I have a huge problem when we attach our name to something and a gift.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

So, like, Jamie with the gift of healing, yes, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Like, it's like, but I'm not the gift, like I only have that gift because Jesus, like when someone's like, so-and-so healed me, it's the reason I have a problem with sainthood. Like, I have a problem with someone saying Saint Peter, and here's the qualification is he healed someone. Peter didn't heal anybody. Penny Hinn didn't heal anybody, Billy Graham didn't heal anybody, Jesus is the healer. You know what I mean? So, like the moment we we take our eyes off the headship and make it about someone's gift of healing, we miss the whole point of who's the giver of that gift. And that's that's kind of the I think that's what Paul's addressing. You've made this about you guys in the room from a cultural standpoint. You're the you're the big wigs. You got the sm you got the money, you got the the power, you got all these things. Let's not forget, you're not the big wigs. He's the head. He's the guy, he's the distributor. And I think if if we would see that, we would see like, well, he's the he's the one that does it.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Well, in every single chapter, Paul has stressed so far, and I've actually I'm just now realizing how it's built, and I love the flow of this whole book. I might restart it after this. But um, every single one has come down to love, love the body of Christ, love Christ, and then Holy Spirit. Like everything we've talked about cannot be accomplished without love for God, love for our community, and then being led by the Holy Spirit. All of it discerning idols, discerning whether or not we should partake in gray things, all of it comes down to love and the Holy Spirit. And I think what you're saying, when Jesus is center, Jesus is the head, you keep your eyes on him. It's not about me, it's not about who I know, it's not about what groups I want to be in or what title I want. I'm spirit-led. I love the body of Christ. I love Jesus. I keep my eyes on him. And now I can grow in confidence in the gift that he's given me because of those things, not because of somewhere I want to get to or be seen for. So I do think it's important to look into it and discover. And I think there's practice. You know, I I used to call the first time I remember it happening was in uh in youth group. I used to call it God's secrets. Like something would pop into my head and pray for someone. I was like, oh, that's weird. And so even in college, I would call it pr uh God's secrets. And then I learned through like one of those silly tests about words of knowledge, like gifts of knowledge. I'm like, oh, that is how sometimes I hear something to ask someone about, and that's not me, but I also get really nervous. I'm like, what if you say it? And they're like, no. So I've held off for so long. And I'm like, no, just throw it out there. Worst they can do is like, no. You're like, okay. So I do think you need to like practice it straight in. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Grow and like, all right, this isn't, but I also think like when God does that, it's like that person may just need to hear something.

SPEAKER_06 31:50

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Like, hey, you were in my heart today, and I just want you to know I prayed for you.

SPEAKER_06 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

I don't need to know what I prayed for, I just need you to know God cares enough about you that I thought of you and I said a prayer for you. Now they may come back and be like, wow, that is crazy timing. I was just praying, or I was just about to make a decision. So thanks for praying. I have clarity. Like, I think sometimes we over-spiritualize the fact that I need an exact word, and I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I mean, sometimes that happens. I mean, I'll never forget I was at a Jack in the Box and I I pulled up and I had this strong, like, and I don't feel like I have this gift necessarily, but I felt like I had a a really uh like a word for the girl working at Jack in the Box. And so I said it to her and she begins crying. And I don't know that I that I needed the the tears and all that for that to happen, but like to me, it was like I wanted her to see that had nothing to do with me. Like God told me that for you because that's how much he loves you. I think the the competition or the conflict that sometimes happens within us is that we go like, wow, that felt pretty good that I was obedient there. And it's like, but wait a second, I that didn't come for me on my own. I'm just getting my food and going about my day.

SPEAKER_06 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

But because God interrupted it, he's the one that did it, he's the one that cares about this person way more than I do, and I was able to, you know, let him do his thing, and which is I think the vehicle that God, God, the vehicle for for God to save the world is through the church. And so if we're acting in these spiritual gifts and being obedient, they're gonna see him. If we're making it about us, they're gonna see us.

SPEAKER_06 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah. I think that's you hit the nail on the head right there. Because I was thinking as you're talking, you know, how many Well I'll I'll just say this, you know, the the realization is the gifts aren't for us. The gifts are God to use through us for other people. If you're using a gift to bring focus on you, then I'd question whether you have to do that.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Well, I think that's what he addressed in chapter nine at the end when he says I discipline my body like an athlete, so I won't be disqualified.

SPEAKER_05 34:10

I think, Pastor Mike, that's what I realized when I shy away, even though I clearly hear something, I shy away because I feel uncomfortable. I don't want to be staged and glorified for the gift, but being insecure in it is selfish too. That's also narcissistic. Like I don't want to look, I don't want to be disobedience. That's a false humility. Yeah, false humility. Yes, wanting to flaunt it is disobedient, and then not stepping out because you don't want to be embarrassed is also disobedient.

Love Makes Gifts Worth Anything

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Well, and all this is pointing to to chapter 13, right? Because he's Paul teaches that no matter how impressive your gifts are, love is the foundation that gives every gift its value and its purpose. So, like if I'm doing this without love, what you're saying, if I'm if I'm doing this for myself, yeah, it's a clinging symbol. But if I'm doing it out of love, then the what we're going to accomplish is gonna be far greater than anything we could even thought or imagine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:17

I think that's kind of like what you're talking about your childhood, Kelly, at your church. Like I've seen, I was raised Pentecostal too, you know. Like I saw stuff, and there were times where I experienced bigger, more wilder things and felt loved also. So it's like an encouraging atmosphere. And then there were other times where I felt confused and not necessarily loved, but seeing the things, so that's I mean, God can do whatever wild thing he wants. Yes, and when it's because someone loves you and is pushing you to Christ and stuff like that. So I like, yeah, gotta have love.

Gifts Are For Women And Men

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Yeah, I think too, and I always feel like it kind of beats a dead horse, but it's important to mention that uh again in chapter 12, and Paul is like he reiterates this so many times for in First Corinthians through the book, is that it's for men and women because they wouldn't have thought that. Like, and he already said in chapter 11, obviously women can pray and prophesy in public. Do you want to do it?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Like I understand that they but they've experienced women doing those things. It's not like they hadn't experienced that, right? I mean, there's there's women that I mean who have planted churches, helped plant churches, we're prophesying.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

I think that's why people get confused with Paul, because and we're gonna see it again in 14 um, where you see like, but wait, Paul clearly says that women can't preach, but it's like, well, he actually clearly doesn't say that once you figure out what he's actually saying, you know what I mean? And so sometimes you're like, wait a second, Paul, I thought you're like 11 can be very confusing. You're like whatever. And then here we go with chapter 12, and you're like, But wait, you're saying the gifts are for everyone. Men, women. If you are a Christ follower, the gifts are for you.

SPEAKER_07 37:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

You can be an apostle, you can be a prophet, you can be a teacher, you can have the gift of healing to helping others, leadership, unknown languages, like you we get to access all of them. There isn't a male or a female Holy Spirit, it is for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Isn't it wild too? Because like growing up, most of your teachers in school were women.

unknown 37:31

Right?

SPEAKER_03 37:32

I think they still are.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like that, that is like a like it's not un it's not weird.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

The church world would never um combat a woman teacher. They will combat a woman preacher, depending on what church world you're a part of. Sure. And then you go with, but why? So so you can preach because you're a male, but I cannot because I'm a female? Like, are we not all just called to preach? Yeah, I'm saying, we don't have the gift of that, but I'm saying we have the gift meaning, preaching, meaning, telling people about Jesus, knowing the Bible and talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

No, but I'm I just again, like there's just some things that, you know, from a standpoint of a lot of a lot of things that maybe we think teaching is a woman's gift. When you say it out loud, it's like that doesn't make any sense as to why you're saying that. Like to me, saying women need to be quiet in the church doesn't make sense to me. Like where you would get that.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Like a really good explanation for you for chapter 14.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Well, no, I under I understand like it doesn't make sense how someone would come to that conclusion.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

It's like it's like we're saying in chapter 12.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

When you read chapter 12, I don't understand how someone can say, because I know Paul later also says like you guys think from other books.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Obviously, we have the other books now, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

So but but like when Paul says you guys have made this about speaking tongues, I speak in tongues more than all of you. You know what I mean? Like it's like that's pretty clear that they they've made it about that. And so what are we gonna do? We're gonna mimic that and go, we're gonna make it about that as well. And so we're gonna only talk about that, right? I mean, I mean, I was raised in camp. I could have told you what every night of camp's themes were gonna be. You know what I mean? Like, and it was like, but why on Holy Spirit night are we talking about just this?

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Just that, just speaking in time.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

You know what I mean? Like, I I just don't understand.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

And again, I know it's changed, but I'm just giving you background as to I think too, probably more of like a scholarship has developed, like people study it more, like from the 80s until now. Sure. Minds have been way more available.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I'll I'll tell you what, I think tongues has probably be been one of the most mistaughty. Oh, such of the spiritual gifts than any of them. That's my take. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Probably too because we might be a little afraid of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Well, probably because we didn't.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Lack of understanding of the week.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

We didn't we took a tangent and ran with it. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

Yeah. I wonder where that when it happened. Like when that came. I mean, obviously we know.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

You can go by, yeah. Right? We know that. Yeah. I think it was 1856. Okay. The only reason I know because Casey does know these weird facts. It was on my test.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

It was on my test, never mind. 1856.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

I it was 18 something.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

But this is a whole nother teaching for a different understanding the difference between Xenoglossia and Glossolalia.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Those are the two words for tongues that we see throughout the New Text, especially in the book of Acts. And many what what Paul used, the word Paul used in Acts chapter 2 is Xenoglossia, not glossolalia. Oh, so that's a whole nother teacher.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Yes, okay. Yeah. Good. I love twelve. I love chapter twelve.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Well hopefully you liked what I said.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

1906.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

1906. Zooza Street.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

Oh no, no, no. So it was before that. Never mind. This is not important. Next time, next time. The man who coined the phrase initial physical evidence. That is not a biblical phrase. That was a d an explanation we came up with. The man who coined that it was tent revivals in the 1800s. I don't care. Oh, okay. Gotcha. He has a book or something. Interesting. Not important. Sorry. Don't spend time on that. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

See that you gotta be the one that prays this.

SPEAKER_05 41:28

Oh, buddy. Sometimes it pops in your head and it just comes out the front.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

That's why we love it.

Final Prayer And Sending

SPEAKER_05 41:36

Lord Jesus, thank you so much for this time. Thank you for your word. And God, I pray that as we continue to come to your word every day, um, as often as we can, as often as we do, for the rest of our lives, the more we learn your character, the more we learn your design and your order and your love for us, I pray that we would fall more in love with you, that we would grow in not knowledge, but just love for you and love for the people that were around, and that we just get a fuller picture every time we turn to you. And help us wherever we find ourselves, if we're at work, if we're parenting, if we're serving at a church, wherever people are today, I pray that they would keep their eyes on you and love the people around them the way that you would have them. In Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_06 42:17

Amen. Amen.